The blatant bias in parts of the McHugh Commission report

THERE is a quite bizarre quote which appears on the first page of Volume 1 of the McHugh Commission report, and, arguably, it sets the ‘tone' for the entire document.

After claiming that 40% of the 97,783 greyhounds bred in NSW over the last 12 years never made it to the racetrack, it continues, ‘As one breeder stated, “Dogs who don't have the instinct [to chase] or the tools to be a consistent winnerm- well a good handler can spot it a mile away…Most of the time I'd drown the pups.”' (Vol 1, 1.5)

There are two points to be made about that quote. First, the breeder is unnamed. Second, the reason the breeder is unnamed is because he is an American, based very firmly in the United States.

The quote is taken from a book entitled Deviance and Social Control in Sport. The contents of the book have absolutely nothing to do with Australia or . The following is part of the publicity blurb for the book:

‘Drawing on their cutting-edge research in criminology and deviance in the discipline of sociology, Atkinson and Young provide a textured understanding of sport-related deviance through the application of various approaches to deviance in a sport context. Using extended case studies, the authors examine the subject of deviance through examples that are popular (fan violence, hockey enforcers, effect of the ), understudied (sport-related violence against animals, athletes as on-field victims of violence), or emerging (sport security, drugs and weight control, cybernetic athletes, extreme ). This engaging presentation allows readers to fully understand the effects of sport deviance in society.'

The book is very American-centric as you would imagine, and includes the bizarre statement, ‘Sports such as greyhound racing…deliberately resemble warlike competition.' (page 84)

What the McHugh Commission report didn't include was the sentence which preceded the quote from the unnamed breeder.

It reads, ‘As a breeder, one of the skills you acquire is the ability to look at a pup and watch its gait for potential.' I am sure Australian breeders reading that sentence wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry at such blatant nonsense. Yet the comments by this unnamed American source are allowed to appear on page one of the .

Moving closer to home, Jeff Collerson penned an article for the Daily Telegraph in which he stated, ‘As NSW's most experienced greyhound journalist, having written on the sport for 54 years, including from 1968 to 2012 for News Limited, I made submissions to the and asked to be allowed to speak. Not only were my entreaties ignored, but I did not hear of anyone appearing at the judicial inquiry who had anything positive to say about the sport. It seems the inquiry only heard from animal rights activists and their ilk.'

It certainly looks as if anyone with anything positive to say about the industry is subtly reduced to a level of insignificance in the text of the report. Their comments are given a reference number and their name only appears in the reference to their quote at the bottom of the page.

Conversely, Animals Australia (Vol 3 28.82), Dr Eleonora Gullone of the (Vol 3 28.83), Animal Liberation ACT (Vol 3 28.84) and The Animal Defender's Office (Vol 3 28.85) are referred to by name. If Jeff Collerson can be reduced to ‘another industry participant' then why weren't the aforementioned also reduced to something like ‘another anti-greyhound person or body'?

The answer is obvious. The way these comments were threaded into the report smacks of a clear attempt to marginalize those voices speaking in by the subtle but very effective method of not ‘humanising' the commentators while ensuring those who do not support the continuation of the sport were accorded either a name or an organization as a sub-conscious attempt to give their commentary that much more gravitas.

It is a form of intentional bias that would be laughable if the issue were not so serious.

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Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Oh yeah, I’m sure US greyhound racing culture is SO different to Australian greyhound racing culture.  I’m sure here in Australia no trainer or breeder would EVER make such callous comments.

Remind us Duncan, in the decades that you’ve been so intimately involved in greyhound racing, what did you do about live baiting?  Because surely in Australia someone like you wouldn’t just turn a blind eye.  Right?  Not in Australia…

sparklingspear
sparklingspear
7 years ago

hugh, your surname must be Jarsole

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

sparklingspear That hurt.  Why didn’t you ever do anything about live baiting Rod?

dogem53
dogem53
7 years ago

Hugh_  mate, we,everyone is well aware of the live baiting.no need to keep using that now tired line of live baiting.yes it did exist,accept that,but that is where the buck stops. I note a lot of your type get on forums,have a negative say,then never be seen again. this is the usual mandate of an anti. jump on,have a say,then wander onto the next rant. I also note,your type has no patience for listening. whether right or wrong,you just wont listen. reminds me of another type of group who have one agenda and no matter how much countries bend over… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

dogem53 Hugh_ My point was, you get all these self righteous articles crying about how everyone is painting your industry out to be terrible, but the truth is you were all part of the problem.  There’s no true contrition of any sort.  And the McHugh report was also an investigation into the culture of greyhound racing.  To suggest that some quote from an american trainer completely misrepresents the industry here is a pathetic red herring.  The industry here has well and truly proven itself to be as rotten as anywhere else (plus the US is a very similar culture to Australia,… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ sparklingspear  Maybe because Rod was one of 80-90% of people who did not live bait Hugh? Maybe because he is a man who would not accuse others of crimes without proof. The American racing scene is very different from Australia Hugh. All dogs live in kennels at the track none of them live in homes and then they have a very successful rehoming programme. This argument ” you all knew you are all guilty” lacks any rationality which given your obvious intellect I am surprised you would use that as an argument.  The fact that 10% might have been live… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ dogem53  not just her information sources concern me but what she does with the millions in donations is an equally concerning matter.

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear That’s a complete cop out.  You don’t turn a blind eye to your neighbour beating his wife because “it’s the cops responsibility”, you report it.  It was common knowledge live baiting was happening.  To deny that is to be a liar.  I’m not directly connected to the industry but those I know who are involved in drug testing for racing knew it was happening.  Those people are a lot less involved than any of you, and they knew.  And they say it was common knowledge.  Many from the industry have since come out and said it was common knowledge.… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear  You are correct Hugh if I saw my neighbour beating his wife I would report it, because I had evidence Hugh evidence.  I would not however go to the Police and report my neighbour because of unproven rumours that he did it because it “was common knowledge.”  Those caught live baiting with evidence were tried in a court of law, found guilty and two have been sent to jail, after due process of law. In Australia we have a legal system that assumes innocence until guilt is proven. We also have very strict rules about what constitutes evidence and… Read more »

dogem53
dogem53
7 years ago

Hugh_ dogem53  .. ok, firstly hugh, NOT ALL..that is crap as I know I never.majority have never needed to live bait. a smart trainer educates his babies from day one by toys etc; THEY DO NOT NEED LIVE ANIMALS TO CHASE…..it is a instinct built it in,and dog trainers of all types see this and educate dogs to do what is needed to bring out that instinct,and not only greyhound s either.all breeds,all clubs etc; so if your daily environment IS NOT SURROUNDED BY LIVE BAITING AND THOSE PARTICIPATING,NO,YOU HAVE NO IDEA THAT IT EXISTS. type IS A STRONG WORD,BUT WE… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

dogem53 Hugh_ By ALL I mean all responsible because you all chose to ignore what you knew was happening.  Not that you were all directly involved. Ok, I can believe that SOME people had no idea.  But lets just think about what that means.  If the estimates are accurate, and you seem to accept that 80-90% is accurate.  That means that at best, one in ten people were participating, at worst one in five (that’s a lot).  Now lets acknowledge that many of those one in ten were the most prominent people in the sport, we know that, and that this… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear Then once again you’re proving my point.  If there were rumours and it was common knowledge that my neighbour was beating his wife, I would at least make enquiries.  I would talk to the police.  I wouldn’t let someone suffer under my nose and put my head in the sand.  That’s the difference between you and me. If I heard that someone was strapping an animal to a lure and letting their dogs rip it apart, I would make enquiries.  I would make it known that I thought this was completely unacceptable, and I would try to find out… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ dogem53 You know what the organisation does with the millions of dollars.  Do you think that television ads, billboards, social media campaigns, flyers, websites, investigations, travel and equipment expenses for investigations, do you think all these things pay for themselves?  I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you realise that all those things cost money.  So assuming that, what leads you to believe that the amount of money coming in from donations is much larger than the amount of money being spent doing the activist work?  Tell me what makes you think that.  Because you… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear I  like the current legal system we have- innocent until proven guilty in a court of law with a jury of your peers based on the rules of evidence. Whilst it certainly has its obvious weaknesses it is a better system than trial by press or animal activists. I have no objection to your views, it appears that you are sincere and motivated by a love of animals and we live in a democracy another institution I like. You also, other than the odd bit of sarcasm, do not lower yourself to insults and abuse. I do however have objections to some… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 dogem53  Those of us who have been on the planet for a while do not need Lynn and her friends producing disturbing animal snuff and torture films to know that cruel things go on. Hugh I have been buying free range eggs for decades. I don’t need a group of silly women telling me that it is not a nice life to be a battery hen. Not one cent goes directly to an animal. Half to wages and administration ( they claim one of their redeeming features is that they have a small administration) yet it costs half the donations… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear I’m not suggesting that someone should be thrown in jail without a trial.  I’m saying that if people have reason to suspect that animals are being mistreated, then they should take it upon themselves to do something about it, not put their head in the sand and refuse to say anything until there’s absolute proof.  These immoral practices continued as long as they did because people refused to take notice when they heard rumours of live baiting.  Because they chose to say nothing when they heard Tom Noble was live baiting at Churchable, or Zeke Kadir could give you… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ dogem53 Throwing a brick through a windscreen of a truck is inexcusable, but are you saying that Animals Australia did that?  Animals Australis is not responsible for every loony that takes things too far, there will always be those people on either side of any debate. Maybe you don’t need to see a piece of video footage to know that the life of a battery hen is bad, but most people do.  Most people have no idea what the conditions farm animals experience are actually like.  Most people just assume it’s pretty good, try not to think about it, and… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear I am sure that within Animal Activists groups there are sincere and compassionate people, however no one should be allowed to break the law because they believe their view is morally superior to others. Extreme views of any kind worry me Hugh. Get hold of animals Australia financial statements Hugh and even you might be surprised how just how much this small group of women pay themselves. They do not go anywhere at night or risk any danger they pay others to do that. They do not have the courage to state where they get information from “they just know things… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear They aren’t above the law.  Like I said before, they are prepared to break the law in order to expose cruelty.  I have no problem with that.  If they are prepared to face the consequences then so be it.  Sometimes that’s what it takes.  Just like Rosa Parks, the famous black rights activist sat in the white section of the bus and refused to move when the bus driver told her to.  Would you condemn her?  It seems like you’re against people standing up for what they believe in.  Civil disobedience has been a critical phenomenon for all major… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ dogem53 No Hugh not anyone from Animals Australia – they would have to leave their office or speaking engagements to do that there are more than one group of fanatical animals activists on the planet. I can assure you Hugh that most adults on the planet are aware that food production is not always a pleasant experience for animals and are are quite happy to pay more for meat, eggs and milk produced under humane conditions. I have no problem with people giving themselves a reasonable wage in any foundation and charity I  don’t even care if their  sole motive is to… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear Hugh comparing Rosa Park’s courage to Lynn White is insulting Rosa Parks. Rosa was probably risking her life, how much bravery do you need to produce web pages and attend speaking engagements in Australia Hugh – and she has plenty of fans I just don’t happen to be one of them. There are, around the planet animal activist organisations who believe they are justified in doing anything for their cause including arson and violence. 

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ dogem53 I would say your seriously overestimating how much people know about where their food comes from.  For example most people have no idea that for a dairy cow to keep producing milk it must be constantly impregnated, and that every male calf it has (which is half of all calves) is taken away within the first couple of days of life and sent off to slaughter.  And that the female calves are taken away and confined to a pen where they are fed on a soy based formula so that all the milk  from their mothers can be kept… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear You missed the point.  The point was they both broke the law to stand up for what they believe in.  You admire one and condemn the other.  It’s hypocritical. Besides, you’re wrong about Lyn White, she went into abattoirs in Indonesia to film animal cruelty, you think that didn’t put her at risk?  You realise some of the investigators from the latest scandal in Vietnam were attacked by abattoir workers and had to flee for their lives?  Lyn was also originally a police officer.  You think she doesn’t know about putting her own life at risk? I don’t think… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear  Reason is not just what you think Hugh. And I will repeat there is no comparison between Rosa Parks and Lynn White. Rosa and all the activists in America who wanted equality were risking far more than a bit of abuse from an Indonesian abattoir worker. To compare these truly brave and seriously oppressed people with a bunch of middle class, educated and well paid Australian women with  millions of dollars backing them and a group of fans then you and I will have to agree to disagree about the definition of courage Hugh. I will leave you alone now Hugh… Read more »

sparklingspear
sparklingspear
7 years ago

Hugh  I am not a trainer. I have only witnessed a live baiting incident ONCE, and that was more than 50 years ago!! I have authorised  3 dogs  since, due to medical reasons, the rest have been sold to lower status grade racing interstate where they had quite long careers, winning a few and running some placings, for their hobbyist trainers. You’re pretty verbose on here, why don’t you ring Ray Hadley & have a discussion with him? Your analogy re someone beating their wife , has no relevance when comparing humans to animals, unless you have extended knowledge of… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

sparklingspear Clearly you’ve failed to understand the analogy, or perhaps fail to understand what an analogy is. The point is that if you hear a rumour of wrongdoing, or it’s common knowledge that wrongdoing is occurring, the right thing to do is inquire, find out if it’s true, and do something about it if it is.  Debora was suggesting that you should just ignore things until there is solid evidence in front of you.  That’s a pretty poor principle to live by. Whether it’s someone beating their wife or their child, or someone beating their dog, or something hurting any… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear The risk each person took doesn’t need to be equal for the comparison to be valid.  It takes guts to travel to foreign countries and go into these places and take secret videos to expose cruelty.  Is the risk equal between doing that in an Indonesian abattoir and being a black woman on bus in the south in the 1950s?  Probably not, but I don’t really know, I wasn’t there, and neither were you.  Would you go to an Indonesian abattoir and do that?  Would you as a woman, in a middle eastern country, chase down cars and ask… Read more »

sparklingspear
sparklingspear
7 years ago

Hugh, clearly you don’t understand the difference between human beings and animals

no doubt you’ll be off to Spain to complain about bullfighting, then off to South America to whinge about cockfighting

(neither which I support)

The human beings in greyhounds  do not trash their dogs, so you, are actually supporting rabbits, the curse of the agriculture in this country

(not to mention a crap football team, with a lifetime history of football thugs))

dogem53
dogem53
7 years ago

Hugh_ dogem53  HUGH…….beginning to think I know your person,but we will keep that aside. mate, I must admit,and accolades to you,that you are are very correct in most of your statements. one says a fair playing field,and I am fair and acknowledge that what you point out is not far from the truth,in all the answers you have put up on this topic. but HUGH,we ,or I ,have acknowledged that LIVE BAITING had taken place,and a film was made that showed this cruelty,and governance was replaced and a new crew taking over,and court appearances have taken place and charges laid. can… Read more »

dogem53
dogem53
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear  HUGH, I give you some praise,then this. how did the activists catch out the dog trainers? EVIDENCE VIA FILM….. you all admitted that you had approached certain governers of the animal industry,be it RSPCA or whomever, but you were told you need hard EVIDENCE. you state in your personal profile you listen to both sides,absorb,then make a decision. if ,in this case you need to get the message out about supposed live baiting,and your initial approaches to bring it to light were based on hearsay etc;,then all those years back where activists claim baiting was as active, why were… Read more »

dogem53
dogem53
7 years ago

Hugh_ ” I’m not saying people should be jailed without trial, or have their reputations ruined on the back of rumours.  I’m saying that when you hear something immoral is happening under your nose, you should do something about it, not ignore it.  I think that’s a pretty reasonable thing to say”. an exert from your own answers. what if you knew of drug dealers in your locale,as an example. you may have even witnessed a dealing being done. kids in the area,a healthy environment being lived by, etc; a picture of paradise really. so you witness a dealing,you see faces,… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear I do not dislike Animal Activists because they break the law. I do not believe they are above the law Hugh. I do not believe that anyone has the right to be violent and commit arson claiming they are doing it because they love animals and if you do some research on some of the international animal activists and see what some of them have done in the name of “a love of animals” I think you might be shocked. The ladies at Animals Australia are not into violence and if they are willing to go to jail when… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ sparklingspear  I am not suggesting you should ignore anything until you have evidence what I am saying is that if you are going to attempt to send people to prison they yes you better have hard evidence. Evidence is not “Ernie” ( unknown trainer in America said something stupid and nasty 11 years ago) and a former high court judge would be well aware of that. Evidence Hugh is Ernie stands up in a court of law states his FULL name, swears on what ever religious book he abides by, and says what he does, not what gossip he heard down… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh I forgot to answer one of your questions about would I go to a Gulf nation, with money people had paid to give animals a better life and then run down the street taking a photograph of a sheep in a car.  I’ll be honest Hugh if I was overcome by urges to visit foreign lands and take pictures of sheep in cars I would probably not assess my self as brave but I would make an appointment with a counsellor.

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

dogem53 Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear Cultural attitudes make a difference to people’s behaviour.  The attitude within the greyhound industry was don’t ask, don’t tell, look the other way, put your head in the sand.  And that allowed this to continue.

Actually the police/RSPCA can conduct raids based on hearsay, live baiting could have been stamped out a long time ago if people in the industry actually gave a shit about it.  But they didn’t, and they only care now because the public is looking on.

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear I never said that anyone was above the law.  The fact that some animal activists do crazy stuff is irrelevant to this discussion.  There are always misguided people.  Just like the fact that Tom Noble was prepared to tie animals to lures and let dogs tear them apart doesn’t mean that you would do the same. That’s great that you donate to those groups, I applaud that.  It seems that you choose to put your money towards groups that actually house and look after animals.  That’s fine.  Animals Australia is an activist group, they have different goals.  They are about… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Well you can question the mental health of those people, but if it weren’t for them there’d be even more animal suffering in the world than there already is.  The obvious example being the animals that were torn apart by live baiting.  You can thank those mentally unstable activists for putting a stop to that.

The thing I don’t understand about you is that you condemn animal cruelty and in the next breath condemn the activists that brought an end to the cruelty.

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh unlike you and the animal activists I do not label everyone in an organisation as the same. I have acknowledged numerous times that there are good people in animals activist groups and bad ones. Ones who are motivated by a love of animals and ones whose motives are not. You and I quote “animals Australia is not responsible for any loony who does the wrong thing” so you are not responsible for your wrongdoers but the greyhound industry in total all are guilty if any one in their industry does the wrong thing. Now that is hypocritical. I would… Read more »

John Tracey
John Tracey
7 years ago

Hugh_ dogem53 Thanks for continuing to entering the debate. It is not uncommon for people to be involved in a culture and not realise that criminal events are abound. Following the police royal commission many legal people involved in the administration of justice towards criminal charges were shocked at the extent of verbals etc. The current Royal Commission into child sexual abuse could lead people to believe that a large section of Priests are involved. The above involvement has been widely known during my life time and this goes back to World War 11. Live baiting was thought to be common… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear  Hugh I can assure you that I do understand the difference between what animal Australia does compared to other welfare agencies. I know that they view their role as raising awareness ( I have a couple of university degrees of my own Hugh) and before I make a criticism of any person or organisation I do considerable research. I do not respect what they do. I will use an analogy Hugh. The playground is dirty, some girls don’t want to sit in a dirty playground and so they take photos of the playground ( only dirty parts). They then demand that… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear There’s a huge flaw in your analogy.  In your hypothetical, the girls have the power to clean up the playground, they can just walk around picking up the rubbish themselves.  Activists from Animals Australia cannot stop people from putting chickens in tiny cages, tying rabbits to lures, keeping pigs in sow stalls, or any of these other things that they oppose.  Their purpose is to raise public awareness, so that the public puts pressure on organisations and government to make changes to the way things operate.

It’s a completely different situation.  Your analogy is flawed.

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear  Hugh the flaw in your arguments is that nobody is aware of cruel practices in agriculture and that they need to be made aware, I think you underestimate how much people do understand where food comes from.

The girls think they are too good to pick up papers Hugh they think nobody but them knows the playground is dirty they are smarter than everyone and they have convinced lots of other students to donate to their cause.

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 No I’m not responsible for every loony animal activist, because we are not united within an organisation or industry.  What I am responsible for, to some extent, is the conduct of others within organisations or industries in which I am a part of.  I am a researcher, if I heard a rumour that another lab at my university was doing unethical things to animals, I would take action.  If I disapproved of the behaviour of anyone in any organisations or industries of which I am a part of, I will speak up, because that is my moral responsibility. Your… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear I didn’t say nobody is aware, but you have got to be kidding if you think the general public, on average, has a high level of awareness about how animal agriculture operates.  Is that what you’re suggesting?  Where do you think people are finding this out? Do an experiment in your own life.  The next 50 people you talk to, ask them if they know that dairy cows have to be constantly pregnant to produce milk, and that 50% of their calves (the males) are sent off to slaughter within the first few days (unless of course you buy… Read more »

Deborah555
Deborah555
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 sparklingspear  Hugh people do know about the cruelty involved in producing food. They just don’t want to think about it because it is too confronting, too depressing  or they are too busy earning a living, looking after their families. Not everybody has the luxury of being able to pursue higher goals Hugh they are worried about being able to survive. If you have a family and you have just lost your job, worried about the rent then if cage eggs are cheaper you buy them not because you are unaware that battery hens have got it rough because you have… Read more »

John Tracey
John Tracey
7 years ago

Hi Duncan, I agree with most of what you are saying although I would qualify that it contains subtle rather than blatant bias and thats more dangerous. Everyone is bias in some form or another and procedures need to be followed to reduce bias. The “curing” of bias in this project was provided by the first recommendation that the social licence be assessed by the Parliament. The parliament is the keeper of the social licence not the lofty inquiry. Unfortunately the Premier has made a dog’s breakfast of the project by pre judging the report and rather than the Parliament… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

Deborah555 Hugh_ sparklingspear It’s not one or the other, it’s both.  People find it confronting, depressing, and they feel guilty.  People are aware of some of the cruelty in agriculture to varying degrees.  Most people do not have much knowledge, and do not want to look into it for fear of what they might find out.  There is a lot of ignorance and a lot of wilful ignorance, and also a lot of pushing it out of the mind.  People don’t want to think about it too closely because then they realise they have a moral obligation to do something about it,… Read more »

dogem53
dogem53
7 years ago

Hugh_ Deborah555 dogem53  a quote from your reply………….. I may not be an intelligent person, I’ll leave that up to others to judge, but I’m educated.  I have two degrees, I’m now doing my PhD.  And I love animals and always have.  If it weren’t for groups like Animals Australia I would have no idea the above things were true.  I spent 30+ years of my life cramming every bit of meat, eggs, and dairy down my throat that I could, and I had no idea how cruel agriculture was.  Now I’m a vegan, and I will never go back to eating… Read more »

Hugh_
Hugh_
7 years ago

dogem53 Hugh_ Deborah555 Again you draw a completely inappropriate analogy.  It’s not equivalent to compare the ignorance of a person WITHIN the greyhound industry about the greyhound industry to the ignorance of a person OUTSIDE of the agriculture industry about the agriculture industry.  If people are actively part of an industry, I think it’s completely reasonable and logical to assume that they would have a fairly decent knowledge of how that industry operates.  That’s not the same as being a consumer of products produced by an industry that you otherwise have nothing to do with.  I bet you consume products all the… Read more »

dogem53
dogem53
7 years ago

Hugh_ sparklingspear  HUGH, this topic is dying slowly,so I will have my last say. firstly,the topic was about THE BIASNESS OF THE GREYHOUND COMMISSION,not live baiting. secondly,you have fought a good fight and I like that,but never think that everyone will be in agreeance with you or ANIMALS AUSTRALIA. thirdly,yes I agree we should research,we meaning you and I, because your rantings clearly indicate that your social agenda is the destruction of an industry. I also want to show you very quickly,some pointers not that not many pick up on. YES HUGH, I do my research. and my estimates are as… Read more »