Greyhounds need to go to the fair work tribunal

DOGS are not as strong as we hope they might be. Or most of them anyway.

While there is unshakeable evidence that over-racing does not work out for stayers (see umpteen previous articles on this topic) we are now seeing readers point out that sprinters sometimes don’t back up very well either. Quite so, so let’s look at some hard facts.

To do that, I picked out the 10 sprint fields at The Meadows last Saturday and scanned their form – the last four runs in the GRV formguide – to see which of them had backed up within a 4-day period and how they did in the second race.

Amazingly, 32 of some 80 runners had done that (see list below). Of those, 19 fared worse while 13 improved. Then add to that the five dogs which had raced on the Wednesday or Thursday prior to the Saturday meeting at The Meadows. Three of those did worse, two did better. So in total, 22 did worse, 15 did better.

Bear in mind that this is just a quick survey, a pilot study if you like, and there will be many stories about hard luck, interference, different boxes and so on. So only broad conclusions can be reached and they then need checking.

Nevertheless, it is meaningful that, say, up to two thirds of the subject dogs had problems backing up while one third did not – apparently.

Anecdotally, this is consistent with numerous cases I see on a daily basis when doing the form at various meetings, doubly so for longer trips.

So, what can we conclude?

A prima facie cases exists that dogs cannot produce their best when backing up too quickly or too often over a period.

It is difficult or even impossible to determine in advance which dogs will suffer more than others.

The longer the trip the more likely it is to see form degradation.

It is likely that the lead-all-the-way winner will suffer more degradation than a runner which runs in the mid-field and then goes hard only in the last 100m or so.

Form variations as a consequence of over-racing are harmful to betting turnover, and to dogs.

The theme that “trainers know best” is a furphy and should be dismissed.

There is ample evidence that authorities should initiate in-depth studies to better explain the situation and adjust racing rules as necessary.

In relation to the last item, I find it concerning that such a vital part of the racing scene has received comparatively little attention from the veterinary sector. Sure, the symptoms sometimes get mentioned but the full package is not examined, nor are fresh policies recommended. Why so?

The dogs with short backups involved at The Meadows:

Why Not Sue
Major Bill
Pay the Boo
Illiad Allen
Arrow Allen
Allen Terminator
Straw Hat Luffy
What’s To Like
Dyna Shinko
Dr Compulsion
Pure Titanium
Smart Maxwell
Uno Sparti
Nockabout Aussie
Fleetwood Zac
Helga Bale
Tywin Bale
Crucify
Maverick Thunder
Jaycee Plumb
Mepunga Fame
Yeates Bale
Aston Ryder
Astrology
Dyna Kenant
Gawker Bale
Trixie Diamond
Penelopes Cruzn
Sonic Spirit
Dyna Juggler
Ima Lonely Boy.

Other views plentiful

There is one reader’s comment about greyhounds that must be endorsed – “They aren’t robots they are individual athletes”. Exactly, as also are footballers, cricketers, tennis players, etc. But do we acknowledge that, or are we continually asking too much? Emphatically, the answers are no and yes, respectively.

The question arose of the Whittaker-Young Gun quinella at Wenty on Saturday night. OK, but that was not the real story of the race, of which more later.

Those two have been plying their trade over the 720m trip for several months now, but with limited success. Both have won a couple against usually ordinary opposition, although taking 12 and 16 attempts to do it, respectively. Whittaker, which showed lots of promise early on in its career, is pretty erratic, running times varying from 42.10 to 42.82. Six of Young Gun’s efforts have failed to break 43 seconds and last week’s 42.51 was one of its two best. Nothing to shout about there.

Yes, they have been racing very frequently but does that explain their ordinary performances? Probably, but we will never know. Either way, these are not backable commodities, not with win rates of that order. Arguably, any race won in 42.50 is a very risky betting proposition.

The real key to that Wenty race came from favourite Sandave Sapphire ($1.60) which ran a dismal 43.43 after a poor start and an indifferent run, finishing 6th in a field of seven. It did suffer a minor check at the first turn but that was largely its own fault. However, it did not look interested. Could that be an outcome of its previous race 7 days earlier when it scorched around the track in a PB of 41.84, which would comfortably win nine out of 10 top events? Was it used up – a gutbuster? Nothing more left? Almost certainly. That time was miles quicker than anything it had done previously so it must have drawn on reserves to do it.

Finally, the advice that “people back off trainers names as they know some are better conditioners then others” hits the mail on the head. Who says they “know”? Not the public, for sure – they would not have a clue. Even experienced punters would guess wrongly on that just as often as they guess right. In any case, there is massive evidence that the trainers themselves don’t know or, if they do, they are hoping against hope that luck will fall their way. Not good enough!

After all, several of our top trainers did not think they would be trapped with live baiting, did they? Many more did not see anything wrong with it. Others have been disqualified for months or years for repeated drug offences.

Past Discussion

  1. Sandave Sapphire raced well for weeks on end on 7 day spacing culminating in a feature win before its last start down performance . Yet you choose to use its latest failure to prove your point yet ignore its consistent prior racing on 7 day spacing . It won a feature race on that basis .
    You previously claimed only 1 % of 1% of stayers can race off 7 day spacing . That’s incorrct and all you need to do is check the metro staying winners each week to see that .
    You have now tested sprinters for similar outcomes yet you say the stats for stayers is twice as bad – a claim without basis.
    Could it be that all racing animals are inconsistent over time , they have their peaks and troughs ,
    And all but the champions remain consistent .
    Canine athletes not robots .
    What if you pick a meeting and run the stats on dogs performances after say 10 days between runs . I Am. Tipping just as inconsistent excepting elite performers .
    Ps . Show on the Road the latest USA staying star has won 16 of its past 17 starts,
    Nearly all on less than 7 day spacing ,
    In fact mostly 6 days and some 4.

  2. Sandave Sapphire raced well for weeks on end on 7 day spacing culminating in a feature win before its last start down performance . Yet you choose to use its latest failure to prove your point yet ignore its consistent prior racing on 7 day spacing . It won a feature race on that basis .

    You previously claimed only 1 % of 1% of stayers can race well on 7 day spacing . That’s incorrct and all you need to do is check the metro staying winners each week to see that .

    You have now tested sprinters for similar outcomes yet you say the stats for stayers is twice as bad – a claim without basis.

    Could it be that all racing animals are inconsistent over time , they have their peaks and troughs ,

    And all but the champions remain consistent .

    Canine athletes not robots .

    What if you pick a meeting and run the stats on dogs performances after say 10 days between runs . I Am. Tipping just as inconsistent excepting elite performers .

    Ps . Show on the Road the latest USA staying star has won 16 of its past 17 starts,

    Nearly all on less than 7 day spacing ,

    In fact mostly 6 days and some 4.

  3. Bruce often as we all know will run with his articles and selectively pick a race or a dog and make statements about same ,often claiming that his writings are facts and often they are merely his opinions. When in fact they are not,they are purely opinions.
    Some of us are awake to you Bruce.
    Lol

  4. Bruce often as we all know will run with his articles and selectively pick a race or a dog and make statements about same ,often claiming that his writings are facts and often they are merely his opinions. When in fact they are not,they are purely opinions.

    Some of us are awake to you Bruce.

    Lol

  5. You might want to get your facts straight I’m fairly sure Pure Titanium had a 7 day break between his Sandown and his Meadows races and the only time he’s back up 4/5 days later is in a heat to final scenario which I clear have no say in

  6. You might want to get your facts straight I’m fairly sure Pure Titanium had a 7 day break between his Sandown and his Meadows races and the only time he’s back up 4/5 days later is in a heat to final scenario which I clear have no say in

  7. With any athlete, human or animal, it’s a fine line to balance training intensity so as to maximise performance without injury.  Training must be intensive enough to promote performance enhancing adaptive changes in tissues (muscles, neurological connections, connective tissue, bone density, etc) but not so intensive so as to induce a level of tissue damage that cannot be recovered from between training sessions.  Even for humans this is a difficult balance to get right, particularly when the gap between optimal training and overtraining is so razor thin that small variations in nutrition, sleep, psychological state, or illness can tip the balance one way or the other a period of training.

    For every athlete the balance will be different due to genetic variation.  Some athletes can train hard and rarely be injured, others injure easily, but may still be capable of equal performance or even superior performance.  The science of this is well explored in the literature relating to human performance, and while there may be less focused research on greyhounds (I would imagine?  It’s not my area), they are after all mammals running around a track so the same concepts apply.  The difficulty with a greyhound is its inability to articulate its own physical/psychological wellbeing, and so the right balance for a given dog is going be somewhat more trial and error than for a human.  But this will always be difficult to get right, human athletes frequently get it wrong.  If one follows individual sports one will often hear how a given training camp for an athlete went well or not so well and how that influenced performance on the day.  Athletes and their trainers constantly revise their approach in order to better optimise a training regime.

    The best approach to safeguard welfare would be to institute a minimum rest period as Bruce advocates for which would have to be based on average ability of dogs to recover.  But then what of the owner/trainer with that rare genetic combination in a dog that can perform optimally at half the rest time of the average dog?  Here is one area where disagreement will arise, they will feel short changed and that their earning capacity is being curtailed.  Also I don’t know what the education of the average greyhound trainer is like when it comes to the science of nutrition and exercise, but if there is a lack of such literature relating to dogs it would behoove trainers to educate themselves on the copious amounts of research that has been performed on humans – better education may reduce instances of trainers running dogs when they haven’t sufficiently recovered.

    Of course the best way to safeguard greyhound welfare is to find something else to do and stop exploiting animals that, unlike the human counter parts to which I have referred, never had a choice about whether or not to become an athlete.  Dogs would certainly be happier if they could just go about their natural behaviours instead of risking injury for human entertainment and greed.

  8. With any athlete, human or animal, it’s a fine line to balance training intensity so as to maximise performance without injury.  Training must be intensive enough to promote performance enhancing adaptive changes in tissues (muscles, neurological connections, connective tissue, bone density, etc) but not so intensive so as to induce a level of tissue damage that cannot be recovered from between training sessions.  Even for humans this is a difficult balance to get right, particularly when the gap between optimal training and overtraining is so razor thin that small variations in nutrition, sleep, psychological state, or illness can tip the balance one way or the other a period of training.

    For every athlete the balance will be different due to genetic variation.  Some athletes can train hard and rarely be injured, others injure easily, but may still be capable of equal performance or even superior performance.  The science of this is well explored in the literature relating to human performance, and while there may be less focused research on greyhounds (I would imagine?  It’s not my area), they are after all mammals running around a track so the same concepts apply.  The difficulty with a greyhound is its inability to articulate its own physical/psychological wellbeing, and so the right balance for a given dog is going be somewhat more trial and error than for a human.  But this will always be difficult to get right, human athletes frequently get it wrong.  If one follows individual sports one will often hear how a given training camp for an athlete went well or not so well and how that influenced performance on the day.  Athletes and their trainers constantly revise their approach in order to better optimise a training regime.

    The best approach to safeguard welfare would be to institute a minimum rest period as Bruce advocates for which would have to be based on average ability of dogs to recover.  But then what of the owner/trainer with that rare genetic combination in a dog that can perform optimally at half the rest time of the average dog?  Here is one area where disagreement will arise, they will feel short changed and that their earning capacity is being curtailed.  Also I don’t know what the education of the average greyhound trainer is like when it comes to the science of nutrition and exercise, but if there is a lack of such literature relating to dogs it would behoove trainers to educate themselves on the copious amounts of research that has been performed on humans – better education may reduce instances of trainers running dogs when they haven’t sufficiently recovered.

    Of course the best way to safeguard greyhound welfare is to find something else to do and stop exploiting animals that, unlike the human counter parts to which I have referred, never had a choice about whether or not to become an athlete.  Dogs would certainly be happier if they could just go about their natural behaviours instead of risking injury for human entertainment and greed.

  9. You had me all the way till your last paragraph then your true colors shone through. SHAME ON YOU
    Eight last start winners in a race
    Someone must win and two will place and five will unplace.
    I suppose Bruce or you would have a story regards the five about genetics or trainers abilty or them not backing up. There is allways going to be debate.
    Thats just life accept it

  10. You had me all the way till your last paragraph then your true colors shone through. SHAME ON YOU

    Eight last start winners in a race

    Someone must win and two will place and five will unplace.

    I suppose Bruce or you would have a story regards the five about genetics or trainers abilty or them not backing up. There is allways going to be debate.

    Thats just life accept it

  11. differentview Haha, sorry to disappoint.  You are right, those are my true colours, but I don’t try to hide them.  I don’t feel that exploiting animals purely for the purpose of entertainment and profit is morally justifiable unless it can be done so without any detriment to their welfare.  The only justification for disagreeing with that (that I can see) is to simply consider entertainment and profit to be of greater value than the animal’s welfare and wellbeing – a position which only seems to be plausible if you underestimate the sentience and intelligence of the animals involved.  I realise that many people see humans as vastly different from animals and don’t consider animals to be capable of complex emotions, or even see them as truly conscious, but this view is not supported by science, it’s an archaic view and science tells us the opposite is true.

    That said, until such a time as animal racing ceases to exist, if it must go on I would prefer to see it do so in a manner that protects the welfare of the animals to the greatest degree possible.  When it comes to training practices (and any other aspect of the industry), understanding the science will help this goal be realised.  I don’t agree with Bruce on much, but he vigorously advocates evidence over superstition (selectively), which is something I can get behind.

  12. differentview Haha, sorry to disappoint.  You are right, those are my true colours, but I don’t try to hide them.  I don’t feel that exploiting animals purely for the purpose of entertainment and profit is morally justifiable unless it can be done so without any detriment to their welfare.  The only justification for disagreeing with that (that I can see) is to simply consider entertainment and profit to be of greater value than the animal’s welfare and wellbeing – a position which only seems to be plausible if you underestimate the sentience and intelligence of the animals involved.  I realise that many people see humans as vastly different from animals and don’t consider animals to be capable of complex emotions, or even see them as truly conscious, but this view is not supported by science, it’s an archaic view and science tells us the opposite is true.

    That said, until such a time as animal racing ceases to exist, if it must go on I would prefer to see it do so in a manner that protects the welfare of the animals to the greatest degree possible.  When it comes to training practices (and any other aspect of the industry), understanding the science will help this goal be realised.  I don’t agree with Bruce on much, in general he vigorously advocates evidence over superstition, which is something I can get behind.

  13. Mate i have been in the dogs for about 45 years now and have seen many ups and downs many many boards come and go many rules changed or developed some for good some for the worse.
    Presently in our industry it is very demoralized.
    From you anti types and from within particulary here in QLD where our own hierarchy in RQ are doing every thing they can to grind the dogs down.
    In my time with many many dogs .All of whom we welped reared educated and raced it was the enjoyment of seeing a puppy we bred come to a track and win a race. Not the money that is a bonus but to see what we and the dog can acieve.And we dont sell dogs and race only our own 90% of the time
    I take it you have never been involved in training an animal of any sort.
    Greyhounds love to work and race and ALL are treated as separate identities by us.
    They each have their own personality and its wonderful to see them race .
    I am sorry more people have not had that experiance in life

  14. Mate i have been in the dogs for about 45 years now and have seen many ups and downs many many boards come and go many rules changed or developed some for good some for the worse.

    Presently in our industry it is very demoralized.

    From you anti types and from within particulary here in QLD where our own hierarchy in RQ are doing every thing they can to grind the dogs down.

    In my time with many many dogs .All of whom we welped reared educated and raced it was the enjoyment of seeing a puppy we bred come to a track and win a race. Not the money that is a bonus but to see what we and the dog can acieve.And we dont sell dogs and race only our own 90% of the time

    I take it you have never been involved in training an animal of any sort.

    Greyhounds love to work and race and ALL are treated as separate identities by us.

    They each have their own personality and its wonderful to see them race .

    I am sorry more people have not had that experiance in life

  15. See we have not taken poodles or bassets and said come on guys lets see who has the quickest.
    We race a very magnificent athlete of the canine breed called a GREYHOUND.
    You seem to like research then research the breed.He has taken hundreds of years to get where he is today.
    I believe his heart is the biggest per body weight
    Of any canine by as much as 50 % more than any other. You will also find many many physical difference between this dog and his peers.
    If there is a God which i dont think there is but if there was he designed this animal for speed and to make sure he put the temperament there in the dog to love doing just that RUN
    Iknow that you will not change your mind but please understand the ANIMAL.
    You compare training Greyhounds to people. Human athletes i dont think there is one particular race of people in the world that is so physicaly different from other human that we could class them as a designed human for speed as is the case with the GREYHOUND.
    sorry for the spelling mistakes guys my eyes are getting tired.

  16. See we have not taken poodles or bassets and said come on guys lets see who has the quickest.

    We race a very magnificent athlete of the canine breed called a GREYHOUND.

    You seem to like research then research the breed.He has taken hundreds of years to get where he is today.

    I believe his heart is the biggest per body weight

    Of any canine by as much as 50 % more than any other. You will also find many many physical difference between this dog and his peers.

    If there is a God which i dont think there is but if there was he designed this animal for speed and to make sure he put the temperament there in the dog to love doing just that RUN

    Iknow that you will not change your mind but please understand the ANIMAL.

    You compare training Greyhounds to people. Human athletes i dont think there is one particular race of people in the world that is so physicaly different from other human that we could class them as a designed human for speed as is the case with the GREYHOUND.

    sorry for the spelling mistakes guys my eyes are getting tired.

  17. differentview No, I’ve never been involved in training an animal, but that doesn’t undermine my perspective.  I do work with animals and have plenty of experience with them.  I have no doubt that you have dogs that you love and that you treat incredibly well, and that they enjoy the lifestyle.  And if that was the fate of all dogs involved in the sport then I would have little practical objection to it’s operation.  But you know full well that across the industry there are a huge number of dogs that do not live as you describe, and many dogs that don’t live very long because they do not show promise.  The very nature of competitive animals racing is such that more animals must be bred than compete in order to find those that are top performers.  That’s the nature of breeding and genetic variation.  Not every dog can be a winner, on the track or in life (if they are even allowed to live at all).

    You may not be in it for profit, but others are.  If there wasn’t money to be made it would be a hobby, not an industry.  Where there’s money to be made from the use of animals, and welfare oversight is insufficient, it invariably leads to suffering.  This is true for racing and it’s true to a much greater extent in agriculture.  For the vast majority of industries animal welfare is not safeguarded to the extent that allows the industry to proceed without significant welfare issues.

    I wish everyone involved in greyhound racing was like you, but they aren’t.  And if you’re claiming that every dog you ever bred got to live it’s life out in peace and happiness then I applaud you.  I wonder if this is the case, or if your love is reserved for those that perform, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt but feel free to confirm or deny.

    You also have to admit that the industry hasn’t done much to earn the trust of the public, the live baiting scandal was shameful, and though you may deny it, it was well known.  It wasn’t the first time the whistle had been blown on that issue, that happened twice before, but action only happened because the four corners documentary outraged the public so much.  I know people involved in the drug testing for horses and greyhounds and they all knew about live baiting.  I wonder where your deep empathy was for the possums, piglets and rabbits that you knew were being ripped apart on trial tracks around the country, perhaps empathy is selective?  45 years and never you knew about Tom Noble’s dirty little not-so-secret secret?  That would be hard to believe.  The industry lacks credibility.  Bruce wrote in a previous article that injuries suffered by dogs is on the brink of becoming the next live baiting level scandal, but my guess is he is right that the industry will fail to get in front of and address that issue.  There is also significant pushback in QLD to proposed strict regulation that forces transparency upon the industry, such opposition smacks of guilty people with something to hide.

  18. differentview No, I’ve never been involved in training an animal, but that doesn’t undermine my perspective.  I do work with animals and have plenty of experience with them.  I have no doubt that you have dogs that you love and that you treat incredibly well, and that they enjoy the lifestyle.  And if that was the fate of all dogs involved in the sport then I would have little practical objection to it’s operation.  But you know full well that across the industry there are a huge number of dogs that do not live as you describe, and many dogs that don’t live very long because they do not show promise.  The very nature of competitive animals racing is such that more animals must be bred than compete in order to find those that are top performers.  That’s the nature of breeding and genetic variation.  Not every dog can be a winner, on the track or in life (if they are even allowed to live at all).

    You may not be in it for profit, but others are.  If there wasn’t money to be made it would be a hobby, not an industry.  Where there’s money to be made from the use of animals, and welfare oversight is insufficient, it invariably leads to suffering.  This is true for racing and it’s true to a much greater extent in agriculture.  For the vast majority of industries animal welfare is not safeguarded to the extent that allows the industry to proceed without significant welfare issues.

    I wish everyone involved in greyhound racing was like you, but they aren’t.  And if you’re claiming that every dog you ever bred got to live it’s life out in peace and happiness then I applaud you.  I wonder if this is the case, or if your love is reserved for those that perform, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt but feel free to confirm or deny.

    You also have to admit that the industry hasn’t done much to earn the trust of the public, the live baiting scandal was shameful, and though you may deny it, it was well known.  It wasn’t the first time the whistle had been blown on that issue, that happened twice before, but action only happened because the four corners documentary outraged the public so much.  I know people involved in the drug testing for horses and greyhounds and they all knew about live baiting.  I wonder where your deep empathy was for the possums, piglets and rabbits that you knew were being ripped apart on trial tracks around the country, perhaps empathy is selective?  45 years and never you knew about Tom Noble’s dirty little not-so-secret secret?  That would be hard to believe.  The industry lacks credibility.  Bruce wrote in a previous article that injuries suffered by dogs is on the brink of becoming the next live baiting level scandal, but my guess is he is right that the industry will fail to get in front of and address that issue.  There is also significant pushback in QLD to proposed strict regulation that forces transparency upon the industry, such opposition smacks of guilty people with something to hide.

  19. differentview Nothing you just said is news to me.  I realise that the greyhound has been bred to run fast over many, many generations.  But I’m really not sure what that has to do with anything I’ve said.

    The comparison I make to humans is with respect to training regimes, and the fact that they are competitive athletes.  This is a valid comparison irrespective of whether one species has been selectively bred and one hasn’t.  And my original comment was to point out that lessons learnt from human training apply to all animal athletes, because those are just physiological questions.  So I’m really struggling to grasp your point.  But perhaps I can hazard a guess at what it is, based on arguments I’ve heard many times before:

    Perhaps the argument you are trying to articulate is that because greyhounds have been bred to run and are so good at it and enjoy it, this justifies the racing industry?  I don’t find this convincing at all, it has nothing to do with the dogs and everything to do with the humans.  The industry and it’s associated apparatus is not required for the dogs to run.  They can be taken out to a paddock or field, or down to the park and be allowed to run to their heart’s content.  It’s also worth noting that the greyhounds themselves are far less concerned with preserving their racing heritage than what humans are, in fact they are not concerned with it at all.  Given the option a stud greyhound will happily mate with any dog breed that it feels drawn to sexually, it doesn’t care how fast its offspring run, and it doesn’t care whether the breed is preserved or not.  Dogs don’t care about the dog racing industry.  Humans care.  Humans are the only ones that care about the racing, it has nothing to do with fulfilling the desires of the animal.  The animal likes to run, as most animals do to varying degrees, it just happens to be faster than most.  But it’s happy to do this in a field with no one watching but the owner, whether there’s money involved or not.  So I don’t find this argument (which I’ve heard many times before) provides any justification for the welfare cost of the industry.

    And speaking of welfare, I also note you avoided answering the questions about dogs you have bred that didn’t perform, or your knowledge of live baiting occurring in the industry.  There’s that credibility issue again…

  20. differentview Nothing you just said is news to me.  I realise that the greyhound has been bred to run fast over many, many generations.  But I’m really not sure what that has to do with anything I’ve said.

    The comparison I make to humans is with respect to training regimes, and the fact that they are competitive athletes.  This is a valid comparison irrespective of whether one species has been selectively bred and one hasn’t.  And my original comment was to point out that lessons learnt from human training apply to all animal athletes, because those are just physiological questions.  So I’m really struggling to grasp your point.  But perhaps I can hazard a guess at what it is, based on arguments I’ve heard many times before:

    Perhaps the argument you are trying to articulate is that because greyhounds have been bred to run and are so good at it and enjoy it, this justifies the racing industry?  I don’t find this convincing at all, it has nothing to do with the dogs and everything to do with the humans.  The industry and it’s associated apparatus is not required for the dogs to run.  They can be taken out to a paddock or field, or down to the park and be allowed to run to their heart’s content.  It’s also worth noting that the greyhounds themselves are far less concerned with preserving their racing heritage than what humans are, in fact they are not concerned with it at all.  Given the option a stud greyhound will happily mate with any dog breed that it feels drawn to sexually, it doesn’t care how fast its offspring run, and it doesn’t care whether the breed is preserved or not.  Dogs don’t care about the dog racing industry.  Humans care.  Humans are the only ones that care about the racing, it has nothing to do with fulfilling the desires of the animal.  The animal likes to run, as most animals do to varying degrees, it just happens to be faster than most.  But it’s happy to do this in a field with no one watching but the owner, whether there’s money involved or not.  So I don’t find this argument (which I’ve heard many times before) provides any justification for the welfare cost of the industry.

    And speaking of welfare, I also note you avoided answering the questions about dogs you have bred that didn’t perform, or your knowledge of live baiting occurring in the industry.  There’s that credibility issue again…