Minority rule misleads everyone
WHAT on earth are “community expectations”? How can you define them? Perhaps by a referendum or an election, as we do for governments in a democracy. But it is still on the imponderable side and always changing.
Another way is by gauging the amount of noise made by a particular sector. Demos, marches, PR campaigns, letters to the editor, and so on. But whatever the method used, there is one constant – protests groups are almost always small and push a single thought line to the public. A good example is the Senator heading the Motorists ticket in Canberra.
The topical mob at the moment involves anti-racing types, to whom this website offers regular space to voice their opinions. I emphasise “opinions” because whether sensible or not that's all they are. Facts are often in short supply – for example, brandishing banners calling for governments to cease subsidising the greyhound racing industry. (In the previous year NSW greyhounds actually paid over $21 million in taxes).
Another is the amount of publicity generated by people like NSW Greens leader Dr John Kaye in his campaign to stop all greyhound racing (both pre- and post-live baiting, please note). While a member of the multi-party parliamentary committee examining the plight of the greyhound code, his views were firmly and consistently rejected by everyone, so much so that he resorted to publishing a dissenting report, supported by a tame but biased reporter from Fairfax. Irrespective of the subject, Greens are always flat out gaining more than 10% of the vote. They are a minority. They are not to be ignored, but they are few in number.
In other words, claiming that widespread “public outrage” exists is purely an assertion. Obviously, no sensible person can condone abuses of bait animals to train dogs. That is appalling. It is also illegal as well as of dubious value. However, it is not, and should not be, a measure of the inherent worth of the industry. It is a measure of the idiocy of the individuals who organised it and the failure of management to catch them.
Which brings us to the question of community standards and how you gauge them.
Those standards can be wild and varied. I have offered many examples of that in previous articles but here is another one. There is an animal in Australia which is sneaky, germ-laden, plays no real part in the ecology and is a routine killer of other animals, including humans – the crocodile. Yet it is protected by law. Heaven knows why. It has no value other than to provide material for handbags but you are not allowed to shoot it. Why is that? Clearly, some minority view or other has triumphed over common sense. Meantime, tourists die and huge areas of the country are placed off-limits.
Then there is the spurious claim that greyhounds are “forced” to race; in “Hugh's” words, “Animals don't choose to be part of the sports that we force them to participate in”. What absolute rubbish. Has he ever been to a racetrack to see dogs straining at the leash in their keenness to chase after the lure? It's what they do. Chasing is in their DNA and has been for thousands of years. Other dog breeds have different but no less distinct traits, also part of their DNA.
To deny any such animal the opportunity to pursue its destiny is to endanger its very existence. While greyhounds can make great pets – all dogs like to attach themselves to their owners – that is not their main claim to fame. Chasing is. If they can't do that, the breed will risk withering on the vine.
Indeed, repeated studies show that animal species prosper in direct relation to the value humans place on them. The quandary then becomes that while many greyhounds can be highly valued some are not and suffer euthanasia. Changing those proportions for the better can occur only when the greyhound is regarded as just one of many choices as a pet and the rate of adoption increases radically. To bring that about requires lots of time and a major effort to enhance the image of the breed in the eyes of the community at large.
All that now poses a twofold challenge to the industry. Over the course of a generation – and it may take that long – it has to re-educate the public about the qualities of the greyhound and re-educate participants (ie trainers) in terms of modern welfare standards.
The starting point has to be a complete clean-out of managers and management structures. New industry bosses will have to be ruthless and aggressive in policing standards, including immediate life bans on those abusing the system. No exceptions.
Where It All Started
What is forgotten is that the greyhound industry emerged mostly from a background of hard-working owners and trainers who built their own tracks in order to enjoy some competition. There were no real standards. Greyhound racing was a branch of community recreation which grew like Topsy. For example, miners came out of the pits at 3 o'clock, rushed home to wash off the dust, grabbed their dogs and headed for the track, perhaps to down a beer while waiting their turn to race. What happened in the next town (let alone the next state) was irrelevant. Governments displayed only spasmodic interest, at least until the 1960s when TABs were launched and they opened Pandora's box.
Critically, the original clubs and their successors effectively ran the whole show, never mind whether they were qualified to run a rapidly increasing business. Those influences continue to this day in one way or another, always with a high degree of introversion. Outsiders were shunned except as paying guests, and still are. This is the source of the “we know best” attitude that governs how racing is run (as also evidenced in the WDA report). Every mistake and cultural problem, every resistance to change, can be sheeted home to this history. The industry has never broken out of it.
To bring about radical reform, which is essential, state governments hold the whip hand. They make the vital rules and create the structure that is racing today. Yet, so often, they ignore the real needs and pass the buck back to the participants or their elected representatives. The periodic games of musical chairs amongst controlling boards makes little or no difference (which is the path Queensland and Victoria have just followed, and which NSW has done several times).
In short, leaving participants and other insiders in charge of the shop has always been an abject failure, largely because they have been accountable to no-one except themselves. That can never work, not least because trainers and the like are no longer the major players. Punters and the public are the lifeblood of the industry even though they have had no voice.
Which is where community standards come in again. Ignore the customer at your peril. That's who should set the standards.
To repeat, Rushton SC at the Commission is headed in the right direction, but his strategy is terrible. It's akin to learning that your car has broken down and therefore it has to be thrown away. Why not fix it? Some time in the garage would return it to full usefulness.
Bruce, Greyhounds throughout Australia need grass roots people involved in decision making, something that has been lacking especially in Queensland, Government can regulate how pups are monitored and must do so immediately,they should be able to track every greyhound for life only then will the figures be accurate.
The WDA report had more than a touch of the “we know best” on display. Their independence is questionable, their closeness to the antis unquestionable and their motives include grabbing the $75k on offer out of GRNSW and no doubt to be followed up by more $ for more reports on a breed they had hitherto hated.
Academics are not always experts, there is affair bit of drivel and guessing amongst the few valid points they raise.
Well it’s about to get grass roots again because they’re will be such tight controls on breeding and “disposal” that we’ll have Supr Seniors racing as the curtain raiser at the few tracks left.
Here is what I see. I see a community being fed every negative, whether that is true, false, falsified, sensationalized, or imagined, and no justification or clarification from the industry. Community expectations? No, I think it is more what the community h believes now by way of manipulation. There is no falsehood in live baiting…its gone. If it returns then there is no return for the ones guilty. There is no falsehood in wastage. There has always been wastage. Why is it such a big issue now? It’s a big issue because it’s a big leverage by some to sensitize… Read more »
“In the previous year NSW greyhounds actually paid over $21 million in taxes” – Oh so that makes everything alright then. You realise income generation is completely a seperate issue from whether an industry that may or may not be cruel should exist.
The one credit I will give is at least you do allow opposing opinions. I have been using GRNSW’s facebook page as a bit of a testing ground over the past couple of months, deliberately posting messages from the very mild criticism to wildly provocative and without exception ALL are removed. Even the very mild ones. And no, they dont know its coming from the same person, so its clear that GRNSW is deliberately trying to skew the view of public opinion on their social media outlets. Does this sound like an organisation that is above board and ready to… Read more »
Your crocodile argument just takes the cake. Seriously Im laughing at how inept your point is. Tourists dying …. give over. I grew up in Darwin. I lived most of my life in the bush south of Darwin. Im still here. You know why? You take sensible precautions, dont swim except in safe areas, and you are good to go. Its laughable that you don’t understand the importance each animal plays in the ecological structure.
“To repeat, Rushton SC at the Commission is headed in the right direction, but his strategy is terrible. It’s akin to learning that your car has broken down and therefore it has to be thrown away. Why not fix it? Some time in the garage would return it to full usefulness.” – The industry has had decades to fix the car. It has known about its problems for decades, yet no-one did anything about it. I assumed you lobbied heavily on GRNSW to clean up live baiting last year? Oh thats right, you didn’t. And therein lies the problem. The… Read more »
Dave Thompson,
Were you there when Newson was addressed by participants?
It might well be proven that they weren’t talking about “Live bait” at all.Funny that. Lets wait for a recording to come out, hey?
Wastage is the issue and lazy ignorant, arrogant people did nothing about it, not seriously anyway.
Question –
If Owners and Trainers had previously had the choice to hand their retiring dogs to a GAP Adoption programme or have it euthanized, how many would have chose the latter?
IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE PROBLEM.
No SAV I was not there. And Im sorry but Mr Newsome has already sworn under oath at the commission that it was about live baiting, I doubt he would mislead the commission for fun. Of course Wastage has been the problem, but its the problem because the industry didnt clamp down strongly enough on it. Its blatantly obvious a litter of pups may be around the 6 to 10 mark, so if you have trainers keep coming in with new greyhounds from Dog A and Bitch B, and yet none of the other pups make an appearance on any… Read more »
Dave, I’m not saying he misled anyone. I’m saying he may have been misunderstanding. I’m sure we will find out one way or the other. I’m just finding it hard to believe, to use an analogy, some participants went up to the chief of police and asked can I still rob banks because I need some money. In regards to litters sizes, they range from 0 to 12, with an average of six. There is nothing obvious about any of them because the outcome of racers to come out of a litter vary significantly, depending on a host of different… Read more »
” plays no real part in the ecology ” <- to describe crocodiles in this manner shows an extreme level of ignorance when it comes to ecological systems, you seriously need to do some research. This also betrays the fact that you think we should just alter the ecosystem however we see fit with no regard for other forms of life, and that the only value a life form has is what it can give to us (e.g. a handbag). Absolutely no surprises there. The idea that greyhounds choose to race around a track is laughable. You train them to run… Read more »
Hugh,
What a load of verbal diarrhea.
That’s not worthy of any response, but I’ll give you a short one.
To have the opportunity to adopt a Greyhound should be seen to be a PRIVILEGE. There just has to be more opportunities offered by the regulators, so they must be forced to comply.
Don’t try to denigrate the adoption drive because that is being DESTRUCTIVE to the animals.
The industry needs to reform and so do you.
No SAV I am sure to some people adopting a greyhound would be a privilege. Some people don’t even like dogs or want a pet, so I think I’m stating the extremely obvious when I say whether or not it’s a privilege is completely subjective. I am all for an increase in adoptions because that will help reduce wastage. But that doesn’t change the fact that Bruce is saying that increasing adoption rates will take time, and that until that happens he sees no reason to change practices. If that’s not asking someone else to clean up your mess, then… Read more »
Hugh, “It’s a retrospective solution that may not even work.” I believe the Qld GAP are aiming for a 400% increase in adoptions from last years figure. RQ has recently employed a welfare officer who has hit the ground running. Guess what…they are ahead of target. I’ll spell that out…FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT! What I would call that is a massive progressive solution that is working extremely well, wouldn’t you agree? Now my question to those outstanding improvements is… Why oh why was it not done before? One improvement of hiring ONE extra human resource delivers results like that. The underlying… Read more »
No SAV I’d say any increase is an improvement, but if you look at recent estimates of adoption rates and compare them to estimates of wastage, a 400 hundred percent increase barely scratches the surface. I hope as much as anyone that this could work, but if 17,000 dogs per year being put down is an accurate estimate then I’m highly sceptical that adoption is a realistic solution. Why was it not done before? I think the answer to that is obvious, indifference. Money first, welfare second. This quote sums it up: “There is an animal in Australia which is… Read more »
Just a suggestion on re-homing, assuming that a real program with funding is implemented.
1) If you can’t keep your dog, take it to for GAP assessment.
2) If it fails, instead of euthanizing, it goes to a not for profit for re-homing with the Govt giving them $350 when it’s re-homed.
If they worst thing is that the dog has to wear a muzzle in public for it’s 2 walks a day then so be it.
Hugh,
I have no knowledge of an estimate of 17,000 euthanized.
Could you please quote that figure in context?
Dezzy,
I think its a very good suggestion.
What some non-profits need to do is tone down the anti-racing propaganda and take a more neutral stand for the sake of the ANIMAL.
Seems there is growing resentment from the industry towards these groups and fewer dogs will be offered to them, which is not what the aim is.
More user friendly if you like.
No SAV Hey Sav,
I agree Sav.
In the US where they have had a lot more dogs to sort out, the re-homing groups make a point of fostering good relations with the racing authorities.
There is a group in QLD who said publicly that their opinion is not important, what is important is to get the owners to trust them.
I’m pretty sure I know which group you are referring to, and I know that the founders are a bit “lippy” but mean well. It’s an age thing.
Yes, Dezzy,
And I believe wisdom is supposed to be too.
No SAV Sure, it was actually an estimate of 13,000 – 17,000 from an internal document at Greyhounds Australasia. It was brought up in the ongoing GRNSW inquiry hearings. I’m sure you’ll find it if you google it, there was a fair amount of press about it last week.
Hugh, Aaah yes, the famous GA MEMO. I thought when you quoted only one figure of 17,000 and you couldn’t have meant the memo because that isn’t the complete story, so I thought you might have had inside information into FACTUAL figures. I’m glad you have now clarified some of it with the more transparent quote… “Sure, it was actually an estimate of 13,000 – 17,000 from an internal document at Greyhounds Australasia.” Still not the whole picture, is it? You’re just a naughty boy like some others. So don’t bother, I’ll put it here for you… “That means this… Read more »
No SAV What I actually said is “if 17,000 dogs per year being put down is an accurate estimate”, note the “if”, so I never suggested that this was an irrefutable fact, and if you look over my past comments about those figures I have stated the range that was estimated. Honestly, those figures have been so highly publicised at this point that I assumed everyone would be aware of the figures to which I referred, since this entire discussion is centred around what’s been coming out of the hearing. So don’t try and get some cheap “AHA!” moment on… Read more »
Hugh, I KNOW what you said…its the reason for my reply. Stop ranting on and stick with what is before you. Look at this again… “That means this industry is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of anywhere between 13,000 and 17,000 healthy greyhounds a year.(We don’t know how many are being rehomed by charity groups or live out their lives on owner properties.) ” Now for all your ranting, the answers you seek are within that paragraph. Selective blindness doesn’t work when its laid out for you like that. If you insist on some help, I’ll give you a leg… Read more »
No SAV Errrr… the caveat in brackets is the explanation for the large error in their estimate. The way I interpreted that is that the margin of error (13-17000) is due to their uncertainty about adoption/living rates and thus represents what they believe the maximum/minimum adoption/living rates could be. So that with their most generous estimates of adoption/living rates, there are still 13,000 being euthanised a year. That seems to me to be the most logical way to interpret that quote, that’s why the caveat appears in brackets after the statement, to explain the error… Are you suggesting that they… Read more »
Bruce, Greyhounds throughout Australia need grass roots people involved in decision making, something that has been lacking especially in Queensland, Government can regulate how pups are monitored and must do so immediately,they should be able to track every greyhound for life only then will the figures be accurate.
The WDA report had more than a touch of the “we know best” on display. Their independence is questionable, their closeness to the antis unquestionable and their motives include grabbing the k on offer out of GRNSW and no doubt to be followed up by more $ for more reports on a breed they had hitherto hated.
Academics are not always experts, there is affair bit of drivel and guessing amongst the few valid points they raise.
Well it’s about to get grass roots again because they’re will be such tight controls on breeding and “disposal” that we’ll have Super Seniors racing as the curtain raiser at the few tracks left.
Here is what I see. I see a community being fed every negative, whether that is true, false, falsified, sensationalized, or imagined, and no justification or clarification from the industry. Community expectations? No, I think it is more what the community h believes now by way of manipulation. There is no falsehood in live baiting…its gone. If it returns then there is no return for the ones guilty. There is no falsehood in wastage. There has always been wastage. Why is it such a big issue now? It’s a big issue because it’s a big leverage by some to sensitize… Read more »
“In the previous year NSW greyhounds actually paid over million in taxes” – Oh so that makes everything alright then. You realise income generation is completely a seperate issue from whether an industry that may or may not be cruel should exist.
The one credit I will give is at least you do allow opposing opinions. I have been using GRNSW’s facebook page as a bit of a testing ground over the past couple of months, deliberately posting messages from the very mild criticism to wildly provocative and without exception ALL are removed. Even the very mild ones. And no, they dont know its coming from the same person, so its clear that GRNSW is deliberately trying to skew the view of public opinion on their social media outlets. Does this sound like an organisation that is above board and ready to… Read more »
Your crocodile argument just takes the cake. Seriously Im laughing at how inept your point is. Tourists dying …. give over. I grew up in Darwin. I lived most of my life in the bush south of Darwin. Im still here. You know why? You take sensible precautions, dont swim except in safe areas, and you are good to go. Its laughable that you don’t understand the importance each animal plays in the ecological structure.
“To repeat, Rushton SC at the Commission is headed in the right direction, but his strategy is terrible. It’s akin to learning that your car has broken down and therefore it has to be thrown away. Why not fix it? Some time in the garage would return it to full usefulness.” – The industry has had decades to fix the car. It has known about its problems for decades, yet no-one did anything about it. Mr Newson was still being abused by members of the industry claiming that live baiting needed to exist, and while he was being abused, everyone… Read more »
Dave Thompson,
Were you there when Newson was addressed by participants?
It might well be proven that they weren’t talking about “Live bait” at all.Funny that. Lets wait for a recording to come out, hey?
Wastage is the issue and lazy ignorant, arrogant people did nothing about it, not seriously anyway.
Question –
If Owners and Trainers had previously had the choice to hand their retiring dogs to a GAP Adoption programme or have it euthanized, how many would have chose the latter?
IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE PROBLEM.
No SAV I was not there. And Im sorry but Mr Newsome has already sworn under oath at the commission that it was about live baiting, I doubt he would mislead the commission for fun. Of course Wastage has been the problem, but its the problem because the industry didnt clamp down strongly enough on it. Its blatantly obvious a litter of pups may be around the 6 to 10 mark, so if you have trainers keep coming in with new greyhounds from Dog A and Bitch B, and yet none of the other pups make an appearance on any… Read more »
Dave, I’m not saying he misled anyone. I’m saying he may have been misunderstanding. I’m sure we will find out one way or the other. I’m just finding it hard to believe, to use an analogy, some participants went up to the chief of police and asked can I still rob banks because I need some money. In regards to litters sizes, they range from 0 to 12, with an average of six. There is nothing obvious about any of them because the outcome of racers to come out of a litter vary significantly, depending on a host of different… Read more »
” plays no real part in the ecology ” <- to describe crocodiles in this manner shows an extreme level of ignorance when it comes to ecological systems, you seriously need to do some research. This also betrays the fact that you think we should just alter the ecosystem however we see fit with no regard for other forms of life, and that the only value a life form has is what it can give to us (e.g. a handbag). Absolutely no surprises there. The idea that greyhounds choose to race around a track is laughable. You train them to run… Read more »
Hugh,
What a load of verbal diarrhea.
That’s not worthy of any response, but I’ll give you a short one.
To have the opportunity to adopt a Greyhound should be seen to be a PRIVILEGE. There just has to be more opportunities offered by the regulators, so they must be forced to comply.
Don’t try to denigrate the adoption drive because that is being DESTRUCTIVE to the animals.
The industry needs to reform and so do you.
No SAV I am sure to some people adopting a greyhound would be a privilege. Some people don’t even like dogs or want a pet, so I think I’m stating the extremely obvious when I say whether or not it’s a privilege is completely subjective. I am all for an increase in adoptions because that will help reduce wastage. But that doesn’t change the fact that Bruce is saying that increasing adoption rates will take time, and that until that happens he sees no reason to change practices. If that’s not asking someone else to clean up your mess, then… Read more »
Hugh, “It’s a retrospective solution that may not even work.” I believe the Qld GAP are aiming for a 400% increase in adoptions from last years figure. RQ has recently employed a welfare officer who has hit the ground running. Guess what…they are ahead of target. I’ll spell that out…FOUR HUNDRED PERCENT! What I would call that is a massive progressive solution that is working extremely well, wouldn’t you agree? Now my question to those outstanding improvements is… Why oh why was it not done before? One improvement of hiring ONE extra human resource delivers results like that. The underlying… Read more »
No SAV I’d say any increase is an improvement, but if you look at recent estimates of adoption rates and compare them to estimates of wastage, a 400 hundred percent increase barely scratches the surface. I hope as much as anyone that this could work, but if 17,000 dogs per year being put down is an accurate estimate then I’m highly sceptical that adoption is a realistic solution. Why was it not done before? I think the answer to that is obvious, indifference. Money first, welfare second. This quote sums it up: “There is an animal in Australia which is… Read more »
Just a suggestion on re-homing, assuming that a real program with funding is implemented.
1) If you can’t keep your dog, take it to for GAP assessment.
2) If it fails, instead of euthanizing, it goes to a not for profit for re-homing with the Govt giving them when it’s re-homed.
If they worst thing is that the dog has to wear a muzzle in public for it’s 2 walks a day then so be it.
Hugh,
I have no knowledge of an estimate of 17,000 euthanized.
Could you please quote that figure in context?
Dezzy,
I think its a very good suggestion.
What some non-profits need to do is tone down the anti-racing propaganda and take a more neutral stand for the sake of the ANIMAL.
Seems there is growing resentment from the industry towards these groups and fewer dogs will be offered to them, which is not what the aim is.
More user friendly if you like.
No SAV Hey Sav,
I agree Sav.
In the US where they have had a lot more dogs to sort out, the re-homing groups make a point of fostering good relations with the racing authorities.
There is a group in QLD who said publicly that their opinion is not important, what is important is to get the owners to trust them.
I’m pretty sure I know which group you are referring to, and I know that the founders are a bit “lippy” but mean well. It’s an age thing.
Yes, Dezzy,
And I believe wisdom is supposed to be too.
No SAV Sure, it was actually an estimate of 13,000 – 17,000 from an internal document at Greyhounds Australasia. It was brought up in the ongoing GRNSW inquiry hearings. I’m sure you’ll find it if you google it, there was a fair amount of press about it last week.
Hugh, Aaah yes, the famous GA MEMO. I thought when you quoted only one figure of 17,000 and you couldn’t have meant the memo because that isn’t the complete story, so I thought you might have had inside information into FACTUAL figures. I’m glad you have now clarified some of it with the more transparent quote… “Sure, it was actually an estimate of 13,000 – 17,000 from an internal document at Greyhounds Australasia.” Still not the whole picture, is it? You’re just a naughty boy like some others. So don’t bother, I’ll put it here for you… “That means this… Read more »
No SAV What I actually said is “if 17,000 dogs per year being put down is an accurate estimate”, note the “if”, so I never suggested that this was an irrefutable fact, and if you look over my past comments about those figures I have stated the range that was estimated. Honestly, those figures have been so highly publicised at this point that I assumed everyone would be aware of the figures to which I referred, since this entire discussion is centred around what’s been coming out of the hearing. So don’t try and get some cheap “AHA!” moment on… Read more »