What has the greyhound industry learned from the ban?
IT has been a tumultuous year for the sport of greyhound racing in New South Wales.
Things seemed to be looking up following on from the live baiting scandal in 2015. A wide range of reforms were introduced to optimise animal welfare and integrity conditions and participants became more aware of the requirements needed for the sport to meet community expectations.
Breeding was down, rehoming was up, and yet none of this was taken into consideration on July 7 when Mike Baird announced his government's plan to shut down the sport.
Looking back, I don't think there is anyway the Premier could have known what an enormous impact his announcement would have.
The son of a politician, Mr Baird lives in a different world to greyhound folk, and paired with his cohort of north shore Liberals and inner city Greens, how could they relate to the day-to-day lives of the industry's battlers?
Teamed with this, the Special Commission of Inquiry report was damning, especially to those who had no reason to believe it was prejudiced.
Imagine not knowing anything about an industry and then being told of those horrific figures – up to 70 per cent wastage and as many as 68,000 dogs killed over the past 12 years.
Since then, the industry has been able to prove bias within the report and discredit many of those figures, however when your government spends 15 months and $15 million on a report, Baird was doomed to insult, no matter what his next move was.
Deputy Premier Troy Grant's move to back the Premier was painful for the industry. As the leader of the Nationals, Grant should have stood up for his regional constituents, however it was left to three brave Nats MPs to cross the floor in August in order to send a message to the government that it's decision was the wrong one.
Thankfully, the industry was able to rally, and with public and political pressure, the Premier backflipped on his original decision. But where to next?
When announcing the reversal on October 11, the Premier also confirmed the establishment of a newly-formed Greyhound Industry Reform Panel.
Made up of five members, only one of those is from the greyhound industry (the GBOTA's Brenton Scott), with the others being from the RSPCA, the Department of the Premier, the Department of Primary Industries and, of course, former Premier Morris Iemma.
But can the industry feel safe with these people in charge?
The RSPCA celebrated the announcement that the industry was being banned back in July, whilst the day after the reversal was made official, another message was shared on the group's Facebook page, urging the Premier to ‘Bring Back the Ban'.
Since then, this post has been deleted and replaced with another message from RSPCA NSW CEO Steve Coleman announcing he will be a part of the panel.
However, part of this post also expressed disappointment in the change in policy.
Whilst agreeing that animal welfare needs to be front and centre for the industry moving forward, how can the sport reform with people working on the inside who have publicly campaigned against it?
It would be like employing a vegan to manage a knackery — personal beliefs are always going to create a bias — it just won't work.
The panel needed an independent person who is passionate about animal welfare, not an animal rights organisation such as the RSPCA — there is a big difference.
In essence, animal welfare ensures living creatures are cared for following a range of humane guidelines – whereas animal rights dictates animals cannot be used for food, clothing or entertainment – no matter how well they are nurtured.
It's hard to believe the RSPCA will ever do anything other than condemn greyhound racing – no matter how many reforms are successfully undertaken.
And yet the organisation has now been tethered to the industry.
Add this to the fact that the industry has one representative up against two government appointed members, one former Premier and an anti-racing mob.
It's four against one from the outset and it is arguable the sole agent for the dishlickers isn't even a true representative for the entire cross section of greyhound racing.
While Brenton Scott has done a fine job campaigning for the ban to be overturned as a part of the NSW Greyhound Racing Industry Alliance, at the end of the day he is the CEO of the NSW Greyhound Breeders, Owners and Trainers Association (GBOTA).
While it is a member-based association, the GBOTA's main responsibility is managing a selection of racetracks – so where does the individual fit into the equation? Who will look after the trainers, owners and participants, particularly those not linked to the GBOTA, and make sure their thoughts and ideas are taken into consideration?
And what about transparency? Will the industry and public have any idea in regards to what is being discussed about the industry before recommendations and restrictions are decided upon? Or will we just have to deal with what we are dealt?
The industry has not had a racing board since it was removed following the live baiting scandal. I understand the structure of the sport may change dramatically at the end of the panel's work, but in the interim we should have one to protect the needs of the whole industry, not just a sector, and this board should have been represented on the panel to ensure every man, woman and greyhound had their interests covered.
Don't get me wrong, I am very thankful that the industry has been given another crack and I do think things need to change, particularly in regards to animal welfare and integrity.
However, I am very concerned about what has been set in place already and what will be decided for the future.
Call me a pessimist, call me a troublemaker, but it would be wrong for me to sit back and say nothing when I hold these concerns.
By speaking out, I hope to send a message that the industry is tired of being walked over.
Here's hoping the government is finally ready to listen.
Hugh_ Hugh I can assure you my knowledge of animal behaviour extends way past an article in Wikipedia which I would not use as a reference. I could write a ten page essay refuting your claims about the behaviour of male lions but as I said this is a greyhound racing site.
Just to clear up another matter , the greyhound Racing Act of 2009 has been amended to take into account the Greyhound prohibition Act 2016 and among other things the previous board structure has been written out. Here is a prompt of the Act as amended. A question should be asked in Parliament when it re-sits for the need to delay the revoking of the Act and further amendment to the other acts. An answer by the Minister should reassure greyhound racing with regard to the Government’s intent although they have already made it public.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/gra2009175/
Hugh_ lone widow jeff holland geez mate, you have a very interesting,slow life.u got that much time to decipher life have u?
Deborah555 Hugh_ cut the grass today hugh? doubt much chores get done around your palace hey?
u need to get a dog mate.go for walks and sightsee a bit.to much wasted time arguing aboutfeelings,pain,cruelty etc;…u think u can change the world> u donal trump in disguise?
spyman Deborah555 Hugh_ Hugh, one of my posts replying to you has been taken off the thread for whatever reason, probably something needing checking. One point I made was that while Jeff is may be right in his classification of greyhounds as working dogs nevertheless the Fed legislation regarded greyhounds and show dogs as pets under the previous legislation on sales tax on animal food. Whether you go with un-neccesary cruelty or pain or anything else there is a need to discuss alternatives wherever possible to negate the need to inflict pain or to be cruel. There are many ways to do… Read more »
Hugh_ jeff holland Hugh, the greyhound racing ban was i believe more about animal welfare than animal rights. On animal welfare i think that we are all on the same page (greyhound enthusiasts and yourself and yours). In the greyhound world animal welfare has finally progressed to a socially acceptable position. (fingers crossed)
However i am not so confident that animal rights will be as forthcoming in the near future. Perhaps not in our lifetime, sadly.
spyman Hugh_ lone widow jeff holland Take your point but a conversation needs to start somewhere.
Just on the prevention of un-necessary pain. A first aid course from the RSPCA to owners of dogs an officials allows pain to be managed and be un-necessary in certain instances.
The provision of the course addresses un-necessary pain.
John Tracey spyman Deborah555 Hugh_ John I have just spent months with a young greyhound who got her first draw from box eight and then headed straight to the rails. I wanted to scratch her because I knew that would happen but I decided to play by the rules. She got hit fell over and then got up the problem was she is so keen she decided to beat a few dogs home anyway. The effort this took caused her to get acidosis very badly and after a fortune at the vets, weeks of rest and care. I have then been trialling her… Read more »
Deborah555 John Tracey spyman Hugh_ With maiden I think that you should be able to declare on a nomination that you only want to draw from an inside or outside draw. If you are drawn with an outside box when you need an inside box then you are “scratched”. The box draw is on the first eight dogs on an order of merit and the ninth dog takes your position. The reserves are then drawn. If there are no reserves available then your dog is scratched and the field goes around with 7 or less greyhounds. At least 5 greyhounds should be needed… Read more »
John Tracey Deborah555 spyman Hugh_ More brilliant ideas John. A dog needs to learn how to race smaller maiden fields would allow them to do this until they become more experienced. There are plenty of ways to protect dogs and the interests of the punters. I have also had the same experience as you regarding a box 8 draw. A very inexperienced greyhound who was really quite slow actually won for me from box 8 . It was a very rare event but I did place a bet I thought at 100 to one what could I really lose. I came out of… Read more »
John Tracey Deborah555 spyman Hugh_ I agree John a sensible box draw would prevent a lot of injuries, after all the welfare of the greyhounds is the priority.
I remember the maiden qualifying trials in the early 1970’s at Harold Park, there were 70 or 80 full field trials just to get the fastest 8 for the final. The rest of the dogs at least got full field experience. Ahh the memories but as Deborah said ‘Thats racing’.
John Tracey spyman Hugh_ Interestingly John the dog who replaced mine is owned by a lovely couple who had watched their dog race from bad boxes and get hit over and over. It would have only been a matter of time before the dog gave up. After this race where he was untouched he has gone on to win a number of races and I am very glad about that.
John Tracey spyman Hugh_ PS the dog had been trained by some one else who had given up on him and now he is going great guns and with a good trainer ( I give credit where credit is due) the dog now has a future. If he had been given a decent opportunity in the first place it would have helped the dog and connections.
Deborah555 John Tracey spyman Hugh_ Deborah, i have two pups entered in qually trials next week and they are going in cold only ever having had solo trials. There are not enough qualifying events which is what i think is responsible for the falling participation rates (in part).
Can you imagine what effect it would have on the participation rates if the ‘Golden Easter Egg’ was an open qualifying event instead of the best 48?
The qually’s i mentioned at Harold Park were as close as some dogs would get to competing, It was a social day out for some trainers as well.
lone widow John Tracey Deborah555 spyman Hugh_ lone widow I think that aside from the welfare of greyhounds which is paramount from a purely economic viewpoint it is not cheap to get a race dog to the track and with a litter of say six it is a very costly exercise- to have a young dog wiped out on their first start makes no sense welfare wise or economically either when their are solutions. It is a waste in more ways than one.
Deborah555 lone widow John Tracey spyman Hugh_ Tell me about it Deborah, i’m in that space as we speak!
lone widow Deborah555 John Tracey spyman Hugh_ Yes I agree lone widow part of the problem for my little greyhound is she is “an only child” She ran a great qualifying time from box 1 in a performance trial with two others and then I had to throw her in with eight others. Not quite enough experience but what can you do? When I had a bigger show I could take some of the other greyhounds and give a pup a run in a field with dogs that knew what they were doing and just a bit slower ( the old girls who enjoyed a day… Read more »
Deborah555 lone widow John Tracey spyman Hugh_ My two are just 17 mths old and they run straight to the turn. I still feel the thrill, can’t wait. Dogs that jump left soon learn that they can’t just keep crashing left but they will always find the fence. It just takes time and hope they’re not hurt on the way.
Yes I’ll vote for John.
John Tracey Hugh_ lone widow jeff holland Therefore if you reduce a field of greyhounds from 8 to say 6 on a particular track and this results in the possibility of the greyhounds market share reducing from 21.06% to 21.05999 and you are only receiving 13% of the Take anyway I would say that the animal welfare prominence would need to be considered seriously in this case. I know that the reduction in field sizes sends GRNSW into a frenzy but sometimes we need to consider the welfare of t he animal over and above the ambitions of control body as a mover… Read more »
lone widow Deborah555 John Tracey spyman Hugh_ Yes the fools that claim we are in it for the money just do not get it do they? I agree with you views on left jumping dogs we just need safer conditions so they can learn.
BJoe lone widow A win at the Federal court would also protect the other states from attack.
Deborah555 Hugh_ So does mine Debora, but that is beside the point. It’s simply a convenient list of examples which illustrates the fact that same species killing is not rare. It doesn’t require a ten page essay to explain why infanticide by lions is or isn’t normal behaviour.
Deborah555 BJoe lone widow Deborah, do you know who to ask to find out if the court case is still on or if it has been abandoned?
Keep the pressure on.
Hugh_ Deborah555 Sometimes when you have a great deal of knowledge on a specific subject it is difficult to summarise it with a couple of sentences and it can be misunderstood although lone widow seems to do it well and as I said this is a greyhound racing site people are concerned about that and I am long winded enough as it is and would rather than bore people to death with my knowledge of the RARE occurrence of infanticide by male lions I would prefer to discuss and read about the views of my fellow participants about greyhound racing and how they… Read more »
John Tracey Hugh_ lone widow jeff holland reducing field size doesnt reduce interference, as anyone who remembers the old qualies will confirm. All that happens in practice is that more dogs have room to accelerate to the same spot at the first turn, so instead of having 2 dogs contest the lead, you end up with 3.
spyman Deborah555 Hugh_ If you added up the time it takes me to write a handful of posts on a website you might find that it leaves plenty of time for other things. No, I don’t think I can single handedly change the world in a significant way, but I can make my small contribution and try to be part of a much larger force for change. It’s easy to mock those who engage in moral discussion and debate when your privilege in life only exists because of the the moral debates and discussions of your forebears. Thankfully others, less apathetic than… Read more »
jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ lone widow we will have to agree to disagree on that one Jeff.
Hugh_ spyman Deborah555 Hugh as i stated before we may not see animal rights in our lifetime and not before human rights for sure which will probably not happen in that same period.
lone widow Deborah555 BJoe I would imagine the alliance would know. It is easy to find court judgements on the net but they do not give running commentary on current cases sub judice and all that. I would also imagine the case going forward would be a decision based on the costs versus the chances of a favourable outcome and whilst many many years ago I did know a bit about constitutional issues between states and the commonwealth my knowledge is not enough to figure it out. I do think however a favourable outcome at the Federal level would protect all the states.… Read more »
Deborah555 jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ lone widow Jeff the answer is out there and being ignored by administrators because of the cost of redesigning the tracks.
If you have SKY TV take a look at the tracks and dogs performances at Devonport in Tassie and Mandurah in WA both tracks have a large turn radius of 72 mtrs, minimum interferance.
Problem solved.
Deborah555 Hugh_ So your concern is that you are so knowledgable that you won’t be able to dumb it down enough for me? That’s more than a little condescending. I’m pretty confident that I have the requisite background knowledge to keep up with discussions of animal behaviour and evolution. There’s an extensive body of literature on animal infanticide, here is an older but nevertheless comprehensive review discussing various reasons why it occurs. Do you have database access? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0162309579900049 Anyway, if you don’t want to get into it, fine, as you say this is a greyhound racing site, but I think that… Read more »
lone widow Hugh_ spyman Deborah555 My reply was aimed at spyman, not you, I have no disagreement with what you said earlier. Though I would say even if we fail to safeguard human rights in many instances, we at least have the intention, and that has lead to better outcomes (depending on where you live).
Personally I don’t really get into the whole “rights” discussion, I don’t find the concept of rights all that useful.
Hugh_ lone widow spyman Deborah555 Hugh, with the greatest respect we are all agreed that animal welfare in the greyhounds has mainly been resolved or at least greatly improved since feb 2015.
Again with respect could you please explain where you are at with all this. (greyhound stuff)
lone widow Deborah555 jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ I left that one for you lone widow I know you have expertise in that area and was waiting to see what good sense you came up with.
lone widow jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ PS to me it is pretty obvious that when the dog in Box 5 at Angle Park is creamed almost every race that tells you even without engineering knowledge that there is a problem.
Deborah555 lone widow jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ It’s endemic on all the 50 mtr radius tracks Deborah. track design has to change.
lone widow Deborah555 jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ The reform panel is also going to have an advisory panel who I hope will open up and allow suggestions and given one of the promises made by the alliance involves this issue hopefully you may be able to send in a submission.
Deborah555 lone widow jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ Race replays are online for both tracks , people that are interested should take a look. It’s just common sense to me apart from the fact i choose where to run my dogs irrespective of the amount of prize money.
Hugh_ Deborah555 No Hugh I was reflecting on my own inability to summarise succinctly creating confusion. Nothing more. And once again as much as I enjoy your knowledge this is a greyhound site my real interest and passion . I am very interested in the views of my greyhound fellow travellers because I believe there is a serious commitment from all of them to address welfare issues but I most certainly do not have all the answers I want to know what they think. I would enjoy a serious debate with you just not now on this site when greyhound racing is under… Read more »
lone widow Deborah555 jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ I think it will be very easy to convince those with common sense which is almost everyone of the participants but the Reform panel well maybe not so easy but we can certainly give it our best shot.
spyman John Tracey Hugh_ lone widow jeff holland lets demand both spyman.
Deborah555 spyman John Tracey Hugh_ lone widow jeff holland PS if they can find 23 million dollars of the taxpayers money to fund “the spring carnival” which I believe lasts a fortnight they can find money to protect greyhound 52 weeks of the year.
jeff holland John Tracey Hugh_ lone widow Jeff there was a lot of research done earlier when the greyhounds raised money for animal research by being awarded extra race meetings above the quota. My uncle Bob edited scientific papers for scientists and got a lot of scientists interested in the dogs at the time. Small and Large fields were filmed in slow motion and what was observed that the fields with large numbers of starters 8 to 10 had jostling between the starters but it was restricted as the opportunity to move to the side at the start was restricted. In the smaller… Read more »
differentview Sorry I took my reply to you off the system. The current act of the Greyhound probitiion 2016 is in force and the Greyhound Act of 2009 has been amended. The confusion was caused some people were calling the ACT a Bill As Jeff says getting language right is important. I should have checked the legislation rather than trust others had got it right.
lone widow Hugh_ spyman Deborah555 Where I’m at with respect to greyhound racing? I’m opposed to exploitation of animals for money because I believe it inevitably leads to poor welfare outcomes due to the inherent conflict between welfare and profit. So in that regard we would never see eye to eye completely I would imagine. Putting that aside, I am obviously pleased that the end result of this entire saga will almost certainly see an overall increase in welfare standards for dogs, and a decrease in the occurrence of live baiting. If the ban yielded one very positive result from my point of… Read more »
Deborah555 spyman John Tracey Hugh_ lone widow jeff holland Deborah, i’ve just been watching the NSW parliament on SKY TV.
The ‘Baird Grant’ coalition are throwing so much money at Orange even i am in shock.
Hugh_ lone widow spyman Deborah555 Thanks for that Hugh. That more or less sums up your thoughts, i guess we’re more or less on the same page.
Deborah555 spyman John Tracey Hugh_ jeff holland PS. Mehreen and 1000 demonstrators in Martin Place today.
lone widow Deborah555 spyman John Tracey Hugh_ jeff holland Good they must be worried otherwise they would not be throwing money at it.
lone widow Deborah555 spyman John Tracey Hugh_ jeff holland The tele said 500 and the comments are caning the rent a crowd. I did let Mehreen know I would be unable to attend this prestigious affair and asked her what she was doing about horse wastage but she has not replied lol.