Is it time to relinquish Wentworth Park?

SEPTEMBER 2017 will mark the 30th anniversary of the closure of Harold Park. That closure reduced Sydney city racing to just one venue, Wentworth Park, and now, three decades on, isn’t it time we gave serious consideration to letting it go as well?

It is the country people of NSW who saved greyhound racing in this state. If the National Party led by Troy Grant had managed to hold on to Orange in the recent by-election, with only a small swing against them, it is possible Premier Baird might well have stuck to his original decision to ban greyhound racing.

As it was, the result was a damning indictment of his unilateral decision and forced Troy Grant to fall on his sword.

Nonetheless, as has been noted elsewhere on this website, greyhound racing in NSW is far from secure as we move into an uncertain regulatory future. There is no doubt from the statements the premier has made since his turnaround that he still believes greyhound racing should end, and I have little doubt he will be doing all he can from behind the scenes to make sure that comes about. If he couldn’t achieve by direct action, then stealth will have to do.

From the Northern Rivers, the Hunter Valley, the Southern Tablelands and elsewhere, the real heart of greyhound racing has always been out in the country. The inner-city, with all the inherent problems of negotiating the traffic, is no longer where the centrepiece of greyhound racing in NSW needs to be, or probably should be. After all, Wentworth Park on anything other than a major race night is about as busy as a cemetery at midnight.

To paraphrase that much overworked karaoke favourite My Way, ‘Crowds, we get a few, but then again, too few to mention’. The wagering landscape has changed enormously in the three decades since the closure of Harold Park and greyhound racing has gained in popularity as a wagering sport since that time, but we don’t really see that in the numbers attending the course.

Crowds will come, but they need a good reason to get out from behind a TV screen. We saw that with the Adelaide Cup at Angle Park last year when the great Fernando Bale was in action. The Melbourne Cup is another that attracts the bums on seats, as does the Golden Easter Egg, but for much of the rest of the time owners, trainers and officials outnumber the punters.

Obviously, there would need to be some serious negotiations regarding the compensation to be paid to NSW greyhound racing for quitting Wentworth Park.

Forget about somehow being seen to cave in to the ultimate wishes of our benighted premier. Think of it more as just sensible business in the modern era.

This would leave a win-win situation for everybody. The State Government gets control of Wentworth Park, trainers get to race at a location which is far closer to where they live and work, thereby reducing the costs of travel significantly, as well as reducing the equally important loss of time, and because the new ‘city’ circuit is sited within the greyhound belt, for want of a better term, it is likely the crowds will be just as good if not better than they were at Wentworth Park.

So, while Harold Park was the ‘jewel in the crown’ from the start of the sport in 1927 until its closure in 1987, and Wentworth Park has held that mantle since then.

Given the simple demographics of change, perhaps the new centre of the NSW greyhound crown should now be passed on to Richmond, a track with an already long history and one which surely would suit a majority of trainers.

Past Discussion

  1. Thank you for a great article and you right, we must look outside the square ,unfortunately for many years we have been dominated by the main race clubs GBOTA and the NCA and through my own experience with these clubs and the grnsw  they are the ones who who have lead us  down the road of destruction .The reluctance of the government of the day to do anything about their behavior is why we have this Mexican stand off with this rotten Baird government. Baird will put in place a process  which will allow the industry to self destruct its an easy way to square up on the Orange supporters who deserted them over the  Ban on Greyhound Racing, sorry but i’am feeling confident  with the confidence trick Baird is playing, as for Wentworth Park its been a burden on the industry for many a year , i wonder if we will ever get the 6 million  the Trust owe us ? and again i’am not feeling confident about that happening !. 

  2. No. Wentworth Park has always been the home of Greyhound Racing in NSW. Being in the heart of the city it allows tourists to experience this great spectacle. How many overseas and interstate tourists are going to catch the wonderful public transport provided to get out to Londonderry if Richmond is the closest city track? I believe Wenty should be protected by the National Trust as a historic site. You may say who cares about the tourists, but it is more about promoting the sport for the world to see and in effect locals to see how unique and beneficial this great spectacle is. I will be very sad when the day comes that Wenty no longer has the dogs. Harold Park  Trots was a great spectacle and had 15,000 at their last meeting, Menangle got the same crowd at their opening meeting but the next Tuesday meeting had 28 paying customers. The difference is The Trots got Million for the sale of Harold Park. When we lose Wenty we get didley-squat. Why leave a great promotional venue for the the sport for no compensation whatsoever? 

  3. CRAZYCRAW  we have to let go soon. crowds do not go to WP anymore,unless a big night. in home technology has killed the crowds for sure.we are now a lazy race,but we also have dangers in inner city life to combat now.

    we have to accept the track is no longer a proposition.the GREENS will hammer home,and BAIRD has his development mentality. we are done,let them have it(comp paid though) and create these centers of excellence.

  4. spyman CRAZYCRAW The location of the Metropolitan Track is important for promotions as a whole in animal racing and prestige is very important to people who have nothing and celebrate in the ownership of common property. You need to be careful because you can take away things from people with nothing. 

    The flattening of prize money, the abandonment of group racing , and the location of racing in low cost land and labor areas will return more prize money per head to participants without them having to put in much of an effort but it will kill the dream.

  5. BobWhitelaw The six million deal fell through the cracks when people focussed their attack on themselves instead of  focusing on the main game..

  6. John Tracey BobWhitelaw Yes John the Metropolitan race clubs and their leadership over many years with the help of GRNSW have leads us down this road of self destruction and now the Government is going to tip us out on our ear with nothing in return. Thank You for nothing the Metropolitan Clubs.

  7. BobWhitelaw John Tracey Once again a lot of what you are saying is fair comment. I  tried to take the houses off several people and I would have gone a lot further than just the club members.(I am not a soft touch)… The GBOTA in my view is an ethical organisation and ethics can win in the end over  even poor performance. What cannot survive in unethical behaviour as this leads to unlawful and criminal behaviour. I have always discounted my support for Metropolitan Racing as like everyone else I have a conflict of interest in wanting a track close to where I live. While the Metro tracks were closer to home I did all my racing on country tracks. Racing cost me about K per year but if I just visited the Country it would have been dearer. I kept clear of the Hunter as the greyhound participants there regards to greyhound racing as a religion and still do. My support for the Metropolitan Racing is that  Wentworth Park is a holy grail for country people who have nothing and rejoice in its fame, If you lose this prestige you are taking something away from people who have nothing and to me this is the greatest crime of all.

  8. John Tracey BobWhitelaw John, I who  for twenty years worked and raced in Sydney  not always had City class dogs,then once i moved to the bush and became a converted country boy  life looked a lot better and once i was excepted and become a local  the majority country folk would tell you the only attraction to Wentworth Park was the prize money nothing else ! maybe a move to bush from the inter city could be beneficial to your long term health. LOL

  9. BobWhitelaw John Tracey Bob neither of us nows for sure what the majority of greyhound people who do not race at Wentworth Park dream of but one thing is for sure is that you are not the only export to the country. When there were only 40 Metropolitan Races per year in the metropolitan area there were more than double the number of participants and 68% of them lived in the Metropolitan Area. There is now 104 metropolitan meetings at Wentworth Park alone and the percentage of participants in the Metro area has dropped to 32%. There is also metro racing in the zone at Richmond and Potts Park. The problem is that there is too much racing in the Metropolitan Area and the number of meetings should be cut back to 26 Metropolitan meetings per year The current allocation of prize money should be retained but the amount paid per meeting should be 26 divided into the allocation than the 104. This would increase the prize money per race by about  300%.The meeting allowance would also be increased the 300% allowing for marketing and promotion.

  10. BobWhitelaw John Tracey Bob also if a country trainer/owner with a single dog raced anywhere in the Metropolitan Area say from Tweed Heads then his car expenses (at Taxation allowance rates) would exceed the current return per starter at Wentworth Park that is currently about ,000. The trip between Tweed Heads and the Metropolitan track no matter where it is will be in the region of 18 hours travel or 36 hours travel for two. There a different award rates for travel in the working sense but it would add to to the trip (if the person regarded him or herself as a business. If the Wentworth Park prize money was trebled then the country person would receive about a 100% return on his racing expenses overtime but the racing would be more competitive (as it is supposed to be.)

    I used Tweed Heads as it is closing and the participants have to go somewhere. To finish square on travel from Tweed Heads to Metropolitan Brisbane the prize money would only need to be per starter and the travel is only a few hours needing one person.

  11. John Tracey BobWhitelaw John  you can only base your argument, only if you win or run a place ,yes your right it is more competitive which lessen  your chances of o a 100% return !

  12. BobWhitelaw John Tracey Its good to talk about the out of square stuff. I think what you are getting at is the affordability of racing. That is only three of the dogs are getting paid over the average and the other five are not. While the competition is greater with less meetings the starting costs are much lower as well but there is another factor and that is the Association has the potential to promote and there is further sponsorship and a larger crowd per meeting.

    When the tote betting broadcasts came in the USA the racing associations took a bill to congress that contained the Lassie principal. The principal was that all dogs are performers , some perform to win other perform to loose but the payments from the tote should be a royalty payment depending on the number of showings and where they are at. Another proposition was that the greyhound should earn a percentage of the wagering it creates on the tote. For example if one dog was even money in a field then his share of the commission would be a percentage of the 50% of the turnover and if another dog was 100/1 then his percentage could be 1% of the turnover on the race. With modern computers anything is possible. The add on prise money for winning and placing would be done by club contribution, gate money receipts percentages. sponsorship and sweepstakes.

  13. John Tracey BobWhitelaw John I must  say i enjoy the healthy debate  between two old heads of the industry. Your research into the industry is second to none, (still waiting for my copy of your book  lol) John with whats gone down since the Live Baiting Fiasco we need new direction and that wont happen while the old guard  is still trying to hang on and i have measured their performance  on where we are today, This Government is going to present us with a very hard task to move forward  and we need the right professional people in the right area’s of greyhound racing to prosper, and as you know its the boys club mentality that have lead us down this road of near self destruction. Sorry to say the days of clubs or  associations running racing is over , the only value  i can see for them is in the area of welfare and rehomeing ,participants education and one voice on any new board structure the government might implement .I’ve always believed the board should be a board of business, regulatory, wagering,and animal welfare and the rest of the board appointed from the participants based on merit  and this proposal came from the Select Committee Recommendations , but the Baird Government ignored them even though their people sat on the committee.John we need to get it right or by the first of July 2017 or it could be all over for good !

  14. John Tracey spyman CRAZYCRAW  they cried and howled when HP went!

    they all recovered and turned WP into its own celebratory dependence shrine.

    so they will get over losing(or surrendering)WP and cherish the new HQ,possibly at RICHMOND.

    you don’t know what you have lost,until it’s gone,they say,but humans being what we are,we adapt,we change,we accept,we move on.

    and unfortunately,social licence means what ALL the people,and when we cannot come up with a clear reasoning for what we are fighting about,MAJORITY WINS.


    what have you guys been doing up there?

    BOB,please explain….

  16. John Tracey BobWhitelaw  wow john you have some history of involvement.

    but john,why cant new centers of excellence be even your dream. maybe not right on your doorstep(wherever that is) but 6 virtual CITY TYPE DREAMS of excellence,spread across the state,are better than ONE central track right in the heart of a city being redeveloped for the city life style of today and into the future. gambling in all shapes and forms is frowned upon in this country(and world),but the weakest sections of it ,like grey racing and even horse racing,is no match for the power of a CASINO that atracts far more gambling losers(public) than our sport ever has and ever will. that is acceptable in political quarters,but animal gambling, no siree,its frowned upon deeply.

    so centers of excellence designed exactly the same(6 WP’s) and moved into 6 zones that will profit all,and strenghthen the outer regions of the industry,cannot u see this as a dream and a better solution? we have to move out of the city and the direct eye contact of the whackos,who mainly reside in inner suburbia. get out,like VIC did when OP was taken,we got over it and hardly a ripple of that exists today. we have to go and we have to do it proper. if allowed mind you.

  17. spyman John Tracey BobWhitelaw NSW has a different landscape to other states due to the development of Casino’s and Casino like poker machine clubs. There are also about 3,000 retail outlets in hotels etc that provided phantom race meetings and who also have facilities for poker machine involvement. Some of these establishments have by themselves a bigger return from gaming than the whole of the NSW Tab pays the Greyhounds for the whole of NSW. When these clubs talk about centres of excellence they are talking in the million development range.

    The centre of excellence concept in sport comes partly from (is it) the Beamish theory that states you need one centre in a sport to cater for the special event that happens infrequently but drives a large demand.

    Without knowing a great deal about football and tennis it appears to me that a modest developments are sought in local areas to maintain a local crowd and other amenities are used in the areas such as training facilities and other sports. The Main Stadium is then scheduled for the large crowds ie 100,000 and there is a roster of sorts to facilitate the bookings of the venue. The overhead costs for running the “centre of excellence” is expensive but it is more than justified by the demand and also the cost savings of not building giant seating capacity on all grounds.

    Greyhound racing fails on this type of model as the potential maximum crowd for greyhound racing is about 3,000 and this only happens at the opening of new infrastructure etc. Throughout the ages the greyhound crowds reflect the number of participants involved in racing and a doubling of crowds generally on special nights. This is the situation on the Metropolitan tracks but in general there is not a great deal of promotion and marketing outside of greyhound racing for the facility to be co occupied etc. For example there is no tourist magnet.

    The other States and in other countries the competition in entertainment and gaming and phantom race meetings is a lot less intense so there could be less competition and more demand on greyhound clubs to provide gaming services.

    The past Western Australia Metropolitan Greyhound racing model is an example. The largest crowds at greyhound meetings to my knowledge since the privatisation of the TAB in NSW has been 6,000 in WA on a Christmas festival night. The first time this event happened the racing had 5 group races, the next time they ran this event in the following year schedules were changed and the greyhounds were essentially country class. The venue still got its 6,000 crowd.

    The horse picnics in NSW sometimes are run by clubs that only have one meeting a year. These meetings are likely to attract about 6,000 but when you look at them they are heavily sponsored (The last one I went to had 80 sponsors) and there is a lot of other celebrations on track such as deportment tents, fashions on the field, children amenities etc. People get a birds eye view of the horses etc.

    There is not much point in building a centre of excellence to contain the crowds for a sport that is downsizing its participants but the sport is growing its welfare and adoption services. The centre of excellence needs to be associated with growth in the future.

    The three centre of excellence concepts the Country Racing Clubs are considering are centres of excellence containing canine services and infrastructure on racecourses and off racecourses controlled by clubs and centre of excellences apart from ones under greyhound control but used by greyhound interests. 

    The Trust has convened a four day session workshop from 13th January to 18th January in the North West Region that includes a leading architect low cost housing advisory company from Melbourne and a graphic artist involved in fund raising, The workshop will also be attended by a former chief of staff the NSW Small business and tourism. The Trust will report to the parliament prior to it sitting in February.

  18. spyman John Tracey BobWhitelaw Spyman, It is all on the public record. In 1987 approx the NCA defaulted on its contract with the Trust and the Racecourse Development committee on an approx K progress payment for the Wentworth Park Stadium which at the time they had a full lease of the complex. Their lease was determined and replaced by a licence on restricted areas for usage. The Trust involvement required it to pay back loans which it did but one loan could not be repaid as the building was not complete and they could not get income from it so a deal was made for them to let the unfinished floors 2nd and 3rd to sports house for the cost of the fit out over ten years. This meant that the trust had no income from the floors for 10 years so it could not pay back its .5 million dollar loan so an arrangement was made for the trust to have the loan repayments to be made at at time in the future when the income started to flow to the trust after the refit loan period was over. Also the NCA owed million to the fund and this was to be paid back out of profits accruing from Wentworth Park events over time. (These loans became an asset of the Greyhound capital fund on transfer). When it became time for the loan to be repaid ie the Trust were letting out the top two floors for rent (which they were entitled to) The greyhound asked for repayments to start and the trust entered into a dispute on the matter. Some resolution was made when Professor Allan was Chairman of the Trust but something went sour when the independent board of NSW was in power (you would have to ask them) and the Chairman of the Trust resigned in protest. The NCA to my knowledge never paid back any of the million it owed the fund.

  19. spyman John Tracey BobWhitelaw If after the first of July and  we are still alive, with  what you are saying here should be the way forward . No other structure makes sense !

  20. spyman John Tracey BobWhitelaw As for many years we have allowed these b**tards to screw us into the ground with the help of  Governments that bludge on us and now  they want to bludgeon us to death

  21. spyman John Tracey CRAZYCRAW Id love someone out  there to send me a copy of a Social Licence?, I have a car ,boat, gun, fishing,and trainers, Licence ,but never seen a Social Licence and what it looks like ! 

  22. BobWhitelaw spyman John Tracey CRAZYCRAW,hang on there BOB,someone will copy and paste one to you. they can duplicate anything nowadays.

  23. spyman BobWhitelaw John Tracey CRAZYCRAW Bob the use of the term social licence was a bit cheeky but it has existed for more than 15 years particularly in the minerals, mining industry V the environment. The government issues in some cases a document granting an environment clearance document that is a social licence. There are a lot of cases of definitions of social licence on Google. You could argue tht the banks have lost their social licence over misconduct of bankers and that religion groups have lost their social licence over sex abuse of participants etc. Social licences can be abstract for example their is a poetic licence and some posts, probably my own as well use this without a written certificate to do so.

  24. BobWhitelaw spyman John Tracey Bob it is great to see that you are taking some responsibility on behalf of participants for the mess we are in. This is the first small step of the journey to success. Great use of the royal plural “We”.

  25. spyman BobWhitelaw John Tracey Good question, no ones really knows ? there’s some from the gbota think they are ! Mr 10% is still there trying to steer the sinking ship, some people never learn and he’s been with both the gbota and grnsw. and look where we are today  not a great recommendation for a new direction if there is ones like him  that are trying to hang on..

  26. John Tracey BobWhitelaw spyman We are the ones that have that been stood over and robbed  for many years, and we are the only ones that can rebuild our sport, yes John “WE”

  27. John Tracey BobWhitelaw spyman CRAZYCRAW I’ll say it again show me a copy where it says on the LICENCE, that this a Social Licence ?

  28. The problem with Metropolitan Greyhound Racing is that it conducts too many meetings in the metropolitan area. The 104 meetings conducted at Wentworth Park and the larger number of meeting at Richmond, dwarf for example the two “metro meetings for racing in Hong Kong that is a reasonable example to refer to as a dual metro construction. Hong Kong has much fewer race meetings per year. The largest track in Hong Kong is in the sticks similar to Richmond and has a grandstand capacity of 85,000 and stabling for 1,260 horses. The complex is about 10KS away from hotel developments and its tote turnover record for one meeting is about what NSW holds on the NSW tote for greyhounds at Wentworth Park and Richmond combined for one year.

    Wentworth Park and Richmond race greyhounds under a venue plan contract with the TAB. The TAB takes approx 20% commission out of the turnover and this money is distributed in many ways.Under the arrangements the TAB is paid venue compensation for any loss it incurs through shifting metropolitan meetings away from Wentworth Park. Richmond is on a venue plan at a lower grade, If Richmond gives its meetings to the higher grade Wentworth Park then the compensation law does not apply as the contract allows venue upgrades not downgrades, If Richmond downgrades its meetings to the third class of venues under the plan then it opens greyhound racing to potential compensation exposure. Of the many legal disputes between the TAB and Racing originally this is the one that the TAB won (venue compensation).

    To my knowledge the Greyhounds have played it safe and have only paid compensation of ,000 over the reform period.

    The situation above was the position at the time I left GRNSW in 2006/7 under the contract arrangements the situation could have deteriorated further and there is no wqay for any of us to know this as the arrangements are kept in confidence. (anyone in a contract can opt for a change of conditions by mutual consent. ( It is logical however that the odds are on the weaker partner selling out than the more powerful one.

    The question re Metropolitan and Regional Racing is what reforms will the TAB accept on behalf of itself and the main beneficiaries in the 20% commission payment to accommodate the greyhounds drive for productivity within its racing code. (The greyhounds are only a very small beneficiary of the 20%).


    If the system (contract) allowed the greyhounds to act independently of the other commission interests then under the prevailing conditions the greyhounds would set up all racing in the cheap labor and land areas and keep the change. Racing (broadcasts) would be in locations like Casino NSW and a two thousand acre development in the far South West (like the leading trainers establishment but owned by greyhound racing). This model could be used now subject to a compensation payout to other parties and probably there would be a default by the greyhounds using the future fund.

    The above could be tested with all the partners if a case could be put forward where both the beneficiaries of the commission and the greyhound share were in  win win situation. This has been tried before and failed.

    Over the last fifteen years the negotiations on reforms to the racing programs have seemed to me to have favoured the main beneficiaries of the 20% commission at the expense of the greyhounds share, whether this position has been made permanent by the greyhound negotiators of GRNSW by mutual agreement is not known. To what extent the greyhounds have been white-anted or not is not known.

    The Trots were allowed to cease metropolitan racing at Harold Park when it was obvious that they would go broke unless they could get the complex re-zoned and sold. The trotw made many concessions to council and the public and a big hit against the actual commercial value price.  What deal they had to do with the Tab and commission partners is not known or disclosed in public.

    The greyhounds might be able to do  deal as well. The Government obviously is not willing to make Wentworth Park freehold and gift it to Greyhounds snd give them money to develop it, they only do these type of things for the horses. There might be a cast to be put for less (meetings) is more and a case could be put comparing the two metro meetings in Hong Kong Racers where one is celebration in the built up ara and the other larger course in the sticks. (Happy Valley-Sha Tin) Versus Wentworth Park-Richmond).

  29. John Tracey BobWhitelaw spyman CRAZYCRAW  aha,and that is its actual beginning in this crazy activists world….mining.

    now everyone wants to use it. mining is where it started,and that’s who it belongs to and with….not a greyhound chapter when it suits a pollie.

  30. John Tracey  John.

    what happens,based on your statement above,between the TAB and the industry,if for arguments sake,the NSW GOVERNMENT forced the eviction of the dogs from WP?

    and would a similar situation be advantageous,if we had 6 WP tracks scattered across the state?advantageous to TAB and the industry….surely a new deal could be organised(this time protect us)where both do have a win/win situation.

    if 6 new WP centers were purposefully built,the TAB would not be at a disadvantage. would it?

  31. spyman John Tracey It would be an interesting legal point. The claim of action would be likely to be between the Government and the TAB. The licence is between the Wentworth Park trust and the Greyhounds not the Government but if the Government revoked the trust then the greyhound would have a licence with the trust that was not effective. The same situation would occur as did when the float arrangements were made and the Newcastle track closed down causing its race dates to be allocated elsewhere. My guess would be that the decision on where the Metro Race dates were to go would be done by a majority vote of Clubs under the provisions of the TAB Act. 

    You are talking about what is termed as centres of excellence. This term is used in nearly all corporate government models involving decentralisation and regional development but it is seldom defined.

    The centre of excellence concept in Ireland during its expansion was to provide at least one new greyhound racecourse update per year at approx million. The last upgrade proposal I am aware of was an upgrade of Limerick at million that caused a public protest.

    The Minister for Racing in NSW progressed the idea of centres of excellence and put a limit of .5 million on each of the six regions. (about 1997). The Newcastle jockey club that owned the Newcastle Greyhounds at Beaumont Park and were unable to make profit out of the greyhounds due to a change in the distribution scheme sold the freehold of the Newcastle track that was regarded the centre of excellence in the Hunter. From historical research I have been told that the asking price for the freehold was million and the Minister had decided at one time to purchase the property on behalf of the greyhounds. An alternative was proposed that 1.5 million be spent dropping the beaumont track inside the exisiting Cessnock Showground thus providing the greyhounds with the two turn track and saving the development fund .5 million. The Cessnock deal was refused and the replacement of the Newcastle track by the Gardens will end up costing multi-millions.

    A centre of excellence depending on wagering income needs to be a very small centre as the cost of providing broadcasts and technology is becoming less and less complicated and expensive. We are going through a period where we are paying a large price for legacy factors of an old TAB system that has expensive contracts but can retail by putting a commission on its services. This must come to an end sooner or later.

    The Tweed Heads Greyhound Club, Boarder Park was the first centre of excellence in NSW with regard to tote betting. It spend in todays figures million putting in cables and decoders and 70 single swipe computers for use of punters. The service was so good that the club was more than competitive  with other  Tab outlets in the area and it made a good profit until conditions changed.  The same equipment today would cost very little to install.

  32. BobWhitelaw spyman John Tracey The Racing agreements favoured the greyhounds up until the early stages of the TAB when the interstate betting off course came on line in about 1968. Since then the greyhounds have been on a slide in NSW compared to Victoria.

  33. John Tracey BobWhitelaw spyman Well  John just another example  of how Greyhound racing has been Mismanaged here in NSW and the Select Committee had exposed that  with their inquiry findings and i have no regrets in exposing the problems that was threatening our future existence as far as wagering and just reward for the product we supply to the TAB. John as you know it was the live Baiting issue that has brought  our industry to its knees around Australia., but some would like to blame the GAG and Select Committee for where we are today and i for one have a clear conscious  in my part getting the Select Committee together for a Fairer Deal for us all participants here in NSW.  The truth of the matter for a start was fact that the Government was going to give the dogs their fair share of the tax parity  which would have help the industry financially , then the live baiting was exposed ,and then government quashed  it , and those  knockers should read the recommendation of the select committee before they go on sites like this making assumptions on who did what to get us to where we are today .